Why Southall Black Sisters made the difficult decision not to attend the Palace’s domestic violence event

[IwantToRetire]

... During internal conversations, arguments for accepting the invitation ranged from: it would be a good opportunity to raise awareness of the discriminatory treatment received by migrant women when escaping violence; we need to make a distinction between an event to celebrate the coronation/monarchy versus an event to garner attention for violence against women and girls; increased visibility could lead to increased funding which was important for the services we run. Unspoken, but nonetheless apparent, was the human desire for recognition that such an invitation represented.

The arguments against included perceptions that it was a PR exercise for Camilla and it would make the Palace look good at our expense; there was no invitation to speak, only attend, which meant that we couldn’t even get our message across to the great and good; there was, no mention of funding attached to Camilla’s work on domestic violence (DV) on her official page. ...

Archived from an opinion piece in the "i" newspaper archive.ph/aVKqe

I was curious why this was in the "i" newspaper behind a paywall but not on their web site, but thought I would share as it looks at how women's groups, especially those from BME communities have, to choose between playing the game and sticking to principles / their politics.

But in checking their web site to see if maybe it had been published, I saw they have a statement up in support of Salman Rushdie, but not one in support of Sistah Space, so an now thinking maybe it was a bit odd to prioritise talking about why they didn't go rather than talking about the issue of racism. twitter.com/Sistah_Space/status/1597854380115767296

hmmmmmmm - so maybe there are two different discussions, institutional racism and compromises that women's group should or shouldn't take.

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

And I do feel a certain amount of sympathy for Lady Hussey. Her dear friend had recently died, effectively leaving her out of a job. I appreciate there’s no financial implications for her, but it was probably a blow to her identity. My understanding is She was effectively in a new job as a ‘greeter’

that doesn’t excuse her being really terrible at that job though, and I do believe her behaviour was motivated by racism

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

@barneshome

They are pathetic fools who are jumping on the bandwagon
Another woke story about nothing

I’m sorry, did you read the article? South all Black Sisters are pathetic? Really?

[LarissaFeodorovna]

So you recognise she was giving evasive, blocking answers.

It's any woman's right to not answer questions that make her uncomfortable, particularly in a social situation which was intended to centre and elevate those women and their organisations.

The person at fault is the one who keeps doubling down on their intrusive questioning, despite getting clear signals that the other person does not want to answer and is feeling uncomfortable.

[Cailleach1]

@DeeCeeCherry 'Black Women Are Women' needs to become a saying around here

Who do you think is confused about black women being women? Did the incident in question allude to someone's womanhood? I don't think so. Women are women by virtue of our biology. Nowt else. Irrespective of other variable characteristics on top of that; size, melanin content, athletic ability, eye colour, etc.

The only adult human who is not a woman, is a man (or male as we now have to qualify). Again, irrespective of his other variable characteristics; size, melanin content, athletic ability, exogenous hormone ingestion, etc.

Sorry for responding to shoehorned tangent.

[LadyKenya]

@DeeCeeCherry

circumferences
Well I don't know.
If you're someone who's born in London, your parents are from the Bahamas but you dress like you're from Kenya and give yourself an African name despite not being of African heritage, I don't know how you can take the position that people asking about your family background is "racist".

Well if you don't know, you should.

There are numbers of Caribbean people who change their names, particularly surnames, because they don't want to carry a slavemaster's surname.

Headley was a slavemaster in Barbados.

'Where are you from?' persistently asked can be triggering when you dont really know because your ancestors were stripped of their names and traditions.
I've seen it all now tho - people opining on Caribbeans not being of African heritage and having no right to wear African attire.

It smacks of lack of awareness and not knowing anything whatsoever about the cultures being spoken of, but opining anyway.

Ngozi's name amd clothing are no justification for her being heckled. A person's outright nosey rudeness doesn't have to be pandered to either. I'm glad it wasn't, and that RF made the right decision

This. Well said.

[CheeseIsMyPatronus]

I think SBS were right not to go.

In the same way Jon Snow of C4 news turned down a knighthood because he doesn’t agree with monarchy, a socialist feminist organisation is staying true to their values by not going to the palace.

[antelopevalley]

SBS were right not to go. Someone else said on a thread about this in Royal Family board that they went to Camilla's DV event in 2016 and that it was a jolly. She said the attendees all already knew each other, so they spent a few hours listening to a few speeches, drinking wine and chatting to people they knew.

Lady SH was racist. Anyone who calls themselves a feminist should be able to recognise the very clear racism.
It makes zero difference what you think of Sistah Space or anything else associated. We don't ignore racism because we don't like an organisation the victim works for or we don't like what the victim was wearing. Those are irrelevant. It was racism, that is all that matters.

[DifferentUserName12]

My friend sent me a YouTube or Tik Tok video where someone asked white people where they were from, refused to accept their first answer and persisted in interrogating them even when it was clear that they were uncomfortable. It was quite interesting hearing their reflections on how it felt.

I have a new phone so no longer have the message with the link but I will try and dig it out.

As a black woman I often feel like some feminists would like to me to accept racism for the "greater good" of advancing women (which often means white women in practice).

Some is in bold because I don't need posters to fall over themselves to assure me that they are personally not racist.

[WinterDeWinter]

Eh? That makes absolutely no sense.

FWIW I think that the first question might - might - have been simple crassness, but the second, third, fourth: racism. It's very telling that when people deny this, they attribute it instead to her age or class. Yes, probably has lots to do with those things - but It's still bloody racism! Plenty of perfectly 'nice' people are formidably racist because they've never felt the need, unilaterally or through external pressure of some kind, to examine their beliefs and ask if they are damaging to others. We should all have done this - those that have chosen not to do so must bear that responsibility.

On the issue of Southall Black Sisters, which is the OPs question - I wrote this on the other thread in relation to the networking aspect:

"I wondered where they were and I'm really pleased to see them take a principled stand. I was impressed that CPB had taken up MVAW when she could have done something much less political - but I was at the 2016 thing and it was just a jolly - everyone already knew everyone, we drank wine and listened to her stiltedly read a speech.

These events are PR exercises for the royal concerned; they might draw attention to a given issue, but they also get something in return - the appearance of being more than just a parasite/at the head of a system of repulsive birth privilege which, if we could actually see it with our eyes open, should horrify us . They're just another prop-up for the monarchy.

And TBH the whole idea of 'networking' at a social event is in itself is pretty repulsive - those of us with privileged upbringings are much much better at schmoozing than those without, so it's really just another arena within which we can exercise our advantage."

[WinterDeWinter]

And thinking further about the (fucking racist) idea that because Ngozi Fulani chose to express her heritage/identity/individuality/style or any combination of the above she was effectively 'asking for it', and shouldn't be surprised when someone implies that she's not fully British (for which we can - though racists will deny it - substitute 'human') ... Well, fuck me, that's racist as fuck. Just as it would be pure misogyny if she were victim-blamed for sexual assault because she was wearing a short skirt.

It's all so transparent and tedious - a racist upthread said people were 'boring on' about racism, but actually, it's people like them who are so utterly repetitive, still saying the same things that racists and xenophobes and small-minded Little Englanders have been saying since John Bull in the eighteenth fucking century. Fuck off.

[Shelefttheweb]

@RoseslnTheHospital

@Shelefttheweb feminism is never about supporting racist women to be racist. There has been no punishment of the woman in question - she resigned, she's not been sacked or convicted of a crime or sanctioned. If you are referring to the media coverage, well that's pretty obviously going to happen if you behave in this way. Unless you think that NF should have kept it quiet and not discussed what happened?

It is absolutely ridiculous to say she hasn’t been punished. She has been declared guilty without a trial, put in the modern day equivalent of stocks and having rotten fruit chucked at her. She has absolutely no chance to put her side of the story - we have only heard her accusers and guilt has been presumed based on the fact she resigned to save the RF further embarrassment.

What NF could have done is put in a private complaint to the palace so a proper, and fair investigation could be carried out, LH could have been asked to resign following investigation if the accusations were determined to be essentially true, and training put in place.

[DifferentUserName12]

What NF could have done is put in a private complaint

She could have done. Just as GC feminists could speak privately to individual trans women who invade their spaces. However this doesn't really help tackle the underlying issue does it?

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

@Shelefttheweb

It is absolutely ridiculous to say she hasn’t been punished. She has been declared guilty without a trial, put in the modern day equivalent of stocks and having rotten fruit chucked at her. She has absolutely no chance to put her side of the story - we have only heard her accusers and guilt has been presumed based on the fact she resigned to save the RF further embarrassment.

What NF could have done is put in a private complaint to the palace so a proper, and fair investigation could be carried out, LH could have been asked to resign following investigation if the accusations were determined to be essentially true, and training put in place.

Ah yes

if only the victim would have behaved properly, this whole thing could have been sorted out without embarrassing the person who behaved badly

you know this is victim blaming 101 right?

[Shelefttheweb]

@BernardBlacksMolluscs

Ah yes

if only the victim would have behaved properly, this whole thing could have been sorted out without embarrassing the person who behaved badly

you know this is victim blaming 101 right?

You know this was mob justice right?

[RoseslnTheHospital]

Mob justice?? She resigned almost immediately, presumably to prevent an embarrassing investigation and more formal sanctions. That seems like a choice to take the least hassle outcome to me.

Unless you think that there shouldn't have been any consequences at all for her?

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

@Shelefttheweb

You know this was mob justice right?

ah, the victim is responsible for the actions of others? ✅

[Shelefttheweb]

@RoseslnTheHospital

Mob justice?? She resigned almost immediately, presumably to prevent an embarrassing investigation and more formal sanctions. That seems like a choice to take the least hassle outcome to me.

Unless you think that there shouldn't have been any consequences at all for her?

Of course she had to resign, she had become the story and regardless of what she actually said it is untenable for a member of royal support staff to be the story rather than the royals themselves. Equally she cannot present her side, her version of the conversation, as that maintains her position as the story.

What do YOU think would be appropriate punishment for LH? Do you think before imposing this punishment you should listen to LH or do you feel it is sufficient to take her accuser at their word? Should the same have applied to Maya, Caroline Farrow, Harry the Owl, Julie Bindle, Lisa Keogh, Allison Bailey, Miranda Yardley.... ? Or for that matter should Karen White, Barbie Kardashian, and Dana Rivers be given a trial or should we just punish them without one?

[EasterIsland]

If you're someone who's born in London, your parents are from the Bahamas but you dress like you're from Kenya and give yourself an African name despite not being of African heritage, I don't know how you can take the position that people asking about your family background is "racist".

You DO know how Africans ended up in the Bahamas, don't you @Circumferences ???

Hint: not of their own accord ...

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

@Shelefttheweb

Of course she had to resign, she had become the story and regardless of what she actually said it is untenable for a member of royal support staff to be the story rather than the royals themselves. Equally she cannot present her side, her version of the conversation, as that maintains her position as the story.

What do YOU think would be appropriate punishment for LH? Do you think before imposing this punishment you should listen to LH or do you feel it is sufficient to take her accuser at their word? Should the same have applied to Maya, Caroline Farrow, Harry the Owl, Julie Bindle, Lisa Keogh, Allison Bailey, Miranda Yardley.... ? Or for that matter should Karen White, Barbie Kardashian, and Dana Rivers be given a trial or should we just punish them without one?

Have you considered going back in time for a career as a high court judge in a 1980’s rape case? Your victim blaming skills are <chefs kiss>

it seems that the main problem as you see it is that the victim of racist abuse didn’t keep quiet about that abuse

[midgetastic]

Asking about a family background isn't ( in itself ) racist

Saying "no , where are you really from "
Is

It's refusing to accoet what someone says because of the colour of their skin

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

Agreed

the initial question was socially inept but not the end of the world. Although coming after uninvited touching of NG’s hair, I can imagine it already felt pretty ‘off’.

but assuming the conversation went down as reported (and I’m choosing to believe that), the rest was both staggeringly rude and motivated by racism

[Reugny]

@TruckerBarbie

I did think it was a bit insensitive coming from someone who runs a DV charity. It's not quite like a broken nose and a few busted ribs really.

I assumed the people saying it was a put up job were referring to the rumours that Ngozi was covertly recording the visit.

She had two other women witness the incident.

Then again neither of those women were white so they should be ignored. 🙄

[RoseslnTheHospital]

@Shelefttheweb LH did give her side, she accepted that the comments were as reported and resigned. I think that's a reasonable and proportionate outcome. Don't you? Unless you think that palace aides should be able to be racist if they want, and not face any disciplinary action?

[WinterDeWinter]

@Shelefttheweb if she had a leg to stand on, she or the RF would have said 'we have differing recollections but we'll all be doing diversity training so that in future there can be absolutely no doubt'.

None of the people you mention were/are on trial, so I'm not sure why you're applying the presumption of innocence. And no punishment has been applied. She (or more likely the RF team) knew there was no excuse, and so she stepped down.

[Reugny]

SBS were wise not to attend considering that some of the guests clearly weren't interested in finding out what organisations people were representing.