School skirt policy - could you help me organise my thoughts?

[NigellaAwesome]

I used to be so articulate. Between menopause & a PTSD diagnosis I find I just cannot order my thoughts and find the correct words anymore, so I am hoping some on here can help me?

DD's school are planning to change the school skirt from a standard 6 panelled straight skirt, to a fully 360 pleated affair just below the knee. The reason is to promote modesty and discourage girls from rolling their skirts up at the waistband.

I am no fan of rolled up skirts - I think it looks awful, but something about the proposed change doesn't sit well with me. DD complains that all the girls are routinely kept back after assembly, eating in to their break time, to have their skirt lengths inspected. Meanwhile, boys, who had shirts hanging out, or wearing hoodies in contravention of school uniform policy had nothing said to them.

Quite apart from the double standards, there is something about conveying a message to girls that they are responsible for managing their own modesty / others' perceptions towards them that doesn't sit well with me.

I suppose the flip side of the coin is that school is partly about preparing our children for the world of adulthood and work, in which there are expectations of appropriate dress code, and there is nothing wrong with the proposal - but something just doesn't feel quite right about it. It feels a bit puritanical / handmaidish tbh.

The school have requested parents' views on the new policy, and I want to respond, but cannot articulate my thoughts properly. Could anyone help me order my thoughts?

Why can’t they wear trousers? Our local school has banned skirts - sensible solution IMO.

Sounds a pain in the arse to iron. But actually it won't stop girls who want to roll them from doing it.
Trousers / leggings might be an answer.

Not to mention the environmental impact of a couple of thousand skirts (assuming circa 700 girls with 3 skirts each) getting binned because someone decided to change the style.
Also stops families passing them down and we are in the middle of an economic crisis.

I think I’d say something like- I’m broadly supportive of the uniform review. However, parents are keen that it is applied equally to both sexes to ensure that children are dressed appropriately at school. Focussing on one thing (skirt length), when in fact there are multiple things to consider (list them), risks giving the impression that the school just has an issue with girls in short skirts rather than with raising standards of dress across the school.

I’d also say they should be allowed to wear trousers if they aren’t already.

I would tell the school that DD will change to the new uniform when her current skirts wear out. It's environmentally irresponsible to retire a piece of clothing before then.

Dear Madam/Sir,

With regard to the proposal to alter school skirts to ‘promote modesty,’ I feel it is misguided, outmoded and only promotes gender stereotypes and misogyny. I proposes that all children wear trousers, thus promoting gender equality and eradicating the time-wasting and segregating procedure of examining skirt lengths.

Regards,

Happyhappyeveryday

I'd question the "modesty" idea. There's nothing immodest about girls knees. It's reasonable (imo) to have skirts long enough so knickers aren't on show, but beyond that I can't see the problem with girls legs.

Wearing the uniform properly is fair enough (shirts tucked in, skirts not rolled up) but it needs to be policed across the board, not picking on the girls.

Why stop the girls wearing skirts if they want to? I hate the way everything defaults to the traditionally masculine.

I wouldn't bother. They'll ask for opinions, ignore them, and do it anyway.

If girls didn't walk around with their arse cracks showing, the school wouldn't need to 'promote modesty'. Perhaps the girls need lessons on how to dress appropriately, instead of new skirts.

Not quite what you asked but TBF DD’s school changed to a uniform skirt the year she joined 6th form. She had always opted to wear trousers which were supposed to cover ankles which hers did. But prior to the change many girls opted for skin tight very short mini skirts, skin tight trousers resembling leggings or trousers several inches above ankle length. Now the girls wearing the new uniform skirts all just roll them up until they look at least as short as the previous skirts did.

Its a shame certain one’s blatantly ignoring school rules ruin it for everyone and cost parents more money.

It’s not a bad thing those pleated skirts, they protect me from having to see underwear. Especially if the owner is going up the stairs to the top deck of a bus. I’ve had more than an eye full of gussets and knickers, it doesn’t look sexy at all.

Some girls , especially during teen years when so many changes occur, just don't suit trousers. I'm one. Short with big bum. Even now most trousers just don't suit. I wouldn't recommend taking the choice away from girls by suggesting trousers should be compulsory

I wish schools would just ban skirts, trousers or shorts for all instead. Would get rid of the rolling up issue and the boys could also be cool in Summer.

The rolling up of skirts is a nightmare at my school, more so because my classroom is up several flights if stairs and I've seen far more than I want to numerous times when carrying boxes etc upstairs. Otherwise I look at the floor when I go up them. It's awkward as a female teacher and it's worse for a male as you get accused of looking which is horrible.

I wish schools would just ban skirts

No, awful idea. Trousers just aren't comfortable for everyone.

If there is a double standard with strictness for boys versus girls, I think that needs to be addressed separately from any concerns you have about the new skirts.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a standardised skirt length - e.g. knee length or below. That would mirror what might be expected in the workplace for a customer-facing or office-based role.

But many girls are showing their knickers - that's the problem

OP I don't think this is double standards unless they are letting the boys show everyone their underwear and saying nothing about it - in which case I'd expect them to clamp down on the boys too.

Agree with others, I would add questions round the style of skirt - is it something that must be bought from the uniform supplier? If boys can wear plain trousers from supermarkets etc, it seems unfair to have a uniform policy that means girls uniform is significantly more expensive. Skirts should be generic and plain to allow less well off parents to buy from cheaper suppliers. Girls should have trousers as the default uniform.

smartness in dress should be enforced for both sexes - otherwise it’s suggesting that girls appearances matter more than boys’, and that girls should stay neat all day, whereas it’s expected boys will get messy.

Culottes. You can't roll 'em up.

Why can’t they wear trousers? Our local school has banned skirts - sensible solution IMO.

I for one would hate to have to wear trousers to school in summer!

this

plus a line about only changing when the skirts are worn out, because environment - so a slow change to trousers all round.. the girls’ trousers being cut for girls, obvs

But many girls are showing their knickers - that's the problem

I'm not in the UK, and don't know if this is nationwide, but where I live girls wear bike short type things. However, back when I was at school in the 70s we wore tiny knickers and rolled our skirts up!

I agree. There is a big difference between allowing trousers and banning skirts! What about the Summer?

Agree with happyhappy - the term 'modesty' is getting into handmaiden territory.
A few schools around my way have a unisex uniform. As in, there are set items that comprise the school uniform - white shirt, striped blouse, skirt, trousers, etc. and students may wear any of those items. They seem to spend a lot less time on 'infringements' of uniform and spend more time on learning.

Oh god, please don’t ask them to insist on trousers. DD was permanently the wrong shape for trousers that were acceptable to school, and hated trousers during her period as skirts were more concealing.

How about a nice midi skirt? Rolled up skirts look ridiculous but I must admit I did it too fifty years ago.

Are school girls meant to be looking sexy? What a strange comment

Skirts wont stop the problem you're talking about where someone wearing it is walking up a flight of stairs with someone behind them.

@LimeCheesecake the problem with giving them choices of skirts is that some girls opt for the shortest tightest option of skirt available and it almost seems a competition to wear the tightest shortest skirt available among some groups of girls.