Domestic abuse- male victims & statistics

[MrsGhastlyCrumb]

So: I was at a class this evening where we were informed that about 20% of police call-outs for DA involve male victims.

Now, I do recognise that there are male victims, which is of course awful, but this seems high to me. I have certainly encountered and heard of male abusers calling in counter claims against their female partners in order to cover themselves. Is it possible that this is more widespread than I realised, therefore accounting for a large proportion of the numbers we were quoted, or is it genuinely that high, do you think?

TIA for your thoughts.

Thank you for taking the trouble to do this analysis, my thoughts entirely

If you consistently attack feminists and feminism then people will respond to your posts, regardless of the original post's topic.

I am a feminist, so my criticism is of fellow feminists. It’s not an attack on feminism per se. I think every feminist has a right to question other feminists opinions. We are not monolith of group think.

From reading the separate ONS reports on homicide and child deaths. For example, in the year ending 2015, mothers were the perpetrators of 15 child deaths, but the total number of homicide suspects that were female were 26. So more than half of female violence that ended in death was towards children.

There isn’t anything more up to date that I could find as the last ONS report on homicides that had suspect by sex was that 2016 report for the year ending Apr 2015.

It is interesting that female people are never allowed to talk about the specific issues of male violence against females. Never. I'm reminded of that article by the researcher/provider for resources of violence against both sexes who wrote that when she focused on violence against males she received nothing but support. When she focused specifically on male violence against women and girls? Huge amounts of anger, whataboutery, NAMALT, attempts to refocus her onto male issues - it is a challenge for females that we are not allowed to specifically discuss female specific issues for us because it appears to cause injury to male egos when we do.

This is currently a significant issue for female humans across a lot of topics: the limiting of what they are allowed to discuss without refocusing and anger, because of it distressing male feelings. This intolerance of males to be able to cope with females talking about their negative experiences of males as a sex class is a serious barrier to progress.

Aha, I found the article!

victimfocusblog.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/

We see hundreds of men a year who benefit from completely free, lifelong support including counselling, benefits advice, food parcels, housing advocacy, legal advice, IT suite, music and band practice, employment clubs and training courses, fitness clubs, art therapy and so on. Some guys have been coming every day for years. Our clientele is between 18 and 85 years old from every walk of life you can imagine.

Why am I telling you this?

Because in those 5 years, I have NEVER received the amount of abuse and ‘whataboutery’ that I get for my work and research with women and girls.

I hear ya.

Worth bearing in mind there are different kinds of domestic violence.

There is the intimate terrorism/coercive control/domination type, there is what is referred to as situational couple violence, there’s also violent resistance.

Here’s a document that summarises the types. It’s actually on situational violence but it defines both. Scroll down to Table 1 and Table 2 for comparison and stats.

Link

Iris, thank you, that's actually really informative and interesting. I think we need a public information campaign on this. Pam Gosal, MSP, is currently leading a proposed bill on DV in the Scottish parliament and part of that proposes children & YP are taught about DV in schools; I think it's an excellent idea, and given the vast amount of disinformation and misunderstandings on the subject, urgently needed.

Bill currently in consultation:

www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/proposals-for-bills/proposed-domestic-abuse-register-scotland-bill

I don't see this reality. VAWG is possibly the most discussed feminist topic of all time, maybe just coming in second to all the gender stuff nowadays - which I also see feminists complain they're not allowed to discuss, in spite of the overwhelming number of threads for which they've had to make a separate section.

A start would be not trying to discuss it in a totally unrelated topic where it's derailing the OP. I actually think that what I'm often seeing is feminists so used to VAWG getting the spotlight that they just can't bear it when this isn't the case for once.

I don't see this reality.

Read around here for a while and you might. The threads are everywhere and derailing and issues discussed are pretty much on every single one .

I actually think that what I'm often seeing is feminists so used to VAWG getting the spotlight that they just can't bear it when this isn't the case for once.

On a femininst board.

I do hope you've popped on to discuss gardening on the knitting thread and then scolded them for being so used to knitting getting the spotlight (on their board, and in that topic) that they can't bear it when someone obviously superior and better at balanced thinking than they are comes along to correct and refocus them.

Instead of - you know, letting them talk and either joining the thread, or either looking for a different thread or board, or starting a thread of your own on your chosen topic.

This post comes down to the same basic issue: there will always be someone to pop along and refocus and scold feminists for feministing wrong while implying that they are just intrinsically selfish.

For not being all about others instead of themselves.

Ooh look at that huge can of misogyny. That links up to many, many other threads around here such as 'is it ok for a female to have a sexuality that is in no way useful or accessible to males'.

What did you mean by ‘feminist’ or what does ‘feminist’ meant to you.

"in spite of the overwhelming number of threads for which they've had to make a separate section."

This is an incorrect understanding of why the separate section was created. It was nothing to do with the number of threads, it was to do with constant complaints from a small number of posters and from people external to this site who objected to what women were talking about, who demanded that any and all threads on the topic of gender ideology and it's impact on women were to be siloed in a different section. So they didn't have to sully their eyes by seeing the thread titles in "their" section (Feminist Chat).

I actually think that what I'm often seeing is feminists so used to VAWG getting the spotlight that they just can't bear it when this isn't the case for once.

If only feminists would spend more time discussing men's issues, eh?

Perhaps we need to split the board again?

We can have the naice naice board where feminists can be found taking care of everyone else

the naicish board where feminists are being naughty and nasty and talking exclusively about female centred issues for females

and the board where they're being really naughty and nasty and mentioning the elephants cantering about on top of female rights.

All for a domestic abuser register.
Glad to see this in Pam Gosal’s foreword:
It is also important to note, that while this proposal for a Bill recognises that women are disproportionately victim of domestic abuse, and men – perpetrators. This Bill proposal acknowledges that both men and women can be victims and perpetrators, respectively. It is important that this is reflected throughout the proposed bill

VAWGs in the context of domestic abuse rightfully has the spotlight because it’s the bigger problem- by a factor of 3.

I don’t think we have any responsibility as feminists to address male on male violence or do any campaigning/raising awareness about it. It’s not something we can control or impact imho.

I think our responsibility is first to fighting male VAWGs and secondly fighting female violence against both male and female victims. That’s the only reason why I care about male victims at all.

Interesting table attached- shows 50/14% of domestic homicides had female suspect: 11 with female victims, and 39 with male victims.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/domesticabusevictimcharacteristicsenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020

Please read the full thread or at the very least the OP’s posts. This is a discussion questioning and enquiring the statistics of domestic violence towards men by women, and setting into that context when male abusers report their victim as the aggressor (which does happen), and how reliable that then makes the data when discussing domestic violence as a whole.

Violence against women and girls is baked into the topic at hand and not at all a derail. Given this was posted on a feminist board I would have thought that was implicit, but I guess not.

Why is it we have to go through such mental gymnastics before we address male violence? It’s like many people are willing to discuss absolutely anything else they can think of before addressing it.

I am not a feminist, primarily because I am a man and lack the direct experience as a woman required to fully participate (but I do my best to listen and pass on what makes sense to me), secondarily I usually cannot stand most men who claim to be feminist. However I am sick to death of the tone policing feminists get in what seems to me at least perfectly rational responses to women getting beaten raped and murdered on the daily.

Male violence affects us all, and I am far more concerned with being assaulted or murdered by a fellow man as that is where the risk most likely lies. Whilst this male violence isn’t necessarily a uniquely feminist issue, it is often one of the rare places it’s actually discussed.

Wishing for a like button for things like this.

@Dervel

I am not a feminist, primarily because I am a man and lack the direct experience as a woman required to fully participate (but I do my best to listen and pass on what makes sense to me)

Someone close to me, a man, is in an abusive, controlling relationship with his female partner and he absolutely refuses to involve the police at all.
This is due to fear, shame, violent repercussions from his partner, feelings that he should be able to deal with it -- pretty much the same situation as when a woman is reluctant to report. It does happen to men and it is often hidden. Same as for women.
His best friend (not me) reported the details to the police and was told this was absolutely a coercive and controlling relationship, given a crime number too but it could not be taken further unless the man concerned reported it himself.
(This we know because it is the same if a woman does not want to report her abusive male partner to the police. It is difficult to take it further.)
He is not the only man I know who is in a coercive relationship with a female partner. Another one who will not involve any outside agencies.
So, while I believe those who say some, possibly even much of the domestic violence reported by men is retaliatory behaviour, I know that women are domestic abusers too.
It's unacceptable by either sex but sadly I think there is even more societal stigma attached to male victims.

Here’s the government paper on male victims
www.gov.uk/government/publications/supporting-male-victims/supporting-male-victims-accessible

To respond more fully to your post, as I said above there are are different types of abuse and breaking those down sheds light on male reports of abuse.

1 Situational couple violence - poor conflict resolution, poor communication skills, rows get out of control, they whack each other, drugs or alcohol may be involved. This tends to be a lower level of violence, specific to a situation, tends to be mutual, less frequent, and escalation to serious violence is not common. Not part of a domination pattern of one partner over the other. Situational violence is toxic and harmful, but it’s less likely to end in murder.

2 Intimate terrorism, coercive control - the essence of it is based on pattern of domination/control of one partner over the other. Intimidation, subjugation, humiliation, isolation; verbal, emotional sexual, financial abuse as well as physical. This has more severe physical and psychological effects, and is more likely to end in serious injury or death.

3 Reactive abuse. From dominated partner either in self defence or in frustration/retaliation.

Research from 2014 indicated that around 12-18% of violence in relationships is situational 2-4% is intimate terrorism.

So for male reports of abuse it will either be situational as per 1. or intimate terrorism relationship as per 2. in which they are either a. the victim or b. the aggressor painting the victim as the aggressor, or reporting reactive abuse caused by their coercive control.

When women report violence to the police it is very common for the aggressor to claim to be the victim and counter accuse the victim of violence. This is
because police are obliged to investigate the report and it slows/confuses the case. The police are, in general, wise to this strategy.

As a broad brush - male on female and female on male violence differs in severity, amount & impact. Women experience higher rates of repeated victimisation and are much more likely to be seriously injured.

One study based on the BCS found that over 80% of high frequency repeat victims (over 10 crimes) are women. Another study of 95 recorded cases,
found that men are significantly more likely to be repeat perpetrators and significantly more likely to use threats, physical violence and harassment.

Of the intimate terrorism type, men are certainly less commonly victims than women, as per the death and injury stats. However, a proportion is female on male and there are famous examples such as Alex Skeel.

Well, the definition and the reality are often not the same.