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Feminism: chat

Domestic abuse- male victims & statistics

313 replies

MrsGhastlyCrumb · 23/08/2022 23:25

So: I was at a class this evening where we were informed that about 20% of police call-outs for DA involve male victims.

Now, I do recognise that there are male victims, which is of course awful, but this seems high to me. I have certainly encountered and heard of male abusers calling in counter claims against their female partners in order to cover themselves. Is it possible that this is more widespread than I realised, therefore accounting for a large proportion of the numbers we were quoted, or is it genuinely that high, do you think?

TIA for your thoughts.

OP posts:
IrisVersicolor · 31/08/2022 09:48

All women are feminists unless they believe that women are unequal to men and do not or should not have equal rights. Feminism is the support of equal rights based on the principle of equality of the sexes.

YouAreNotBatman · 31/08/2022 12:31

@TokidokiBarbie
I’ve never heard of female privilege before!
Do you have other examples?
The one you gave wasn’t female privilege per se, more of a pretty girl privilege.

TokidokiBarbie · 31/08/2022 18:52

YouAreNotBatman · 31/08/2022 12:31

@TokidokiBarbie
I’ve never heard of female privilege before!
Do you have other examples?
The one you gave wasn’t female privilege per se, more of a pretty girl privilege.

Random one from a thread I was just reading. You won't find many blokes like this. 99% of the time it's always the man supporting a non working woman in cases like this. And that's before we even. Consider all the woman who work part time despite kids being grown up or in school.

Men can be shit in many others ways but they generally work harder than women on the whole.

My youngest sister. Was always pampered by our mother.
Has moved out with her fiance. She gets government payments as she refuses to work. He is expected to pay all the bills and mortgage. My mum is convinced that him wanting my sister to contribute financially at all is financial abuse.
All DS money should be her spending money for treats for herself.
That expecting her to do any housework at all is domestic slavery.
She should just be able to sit there doing absolute f all but earning equity on “her" house.

TokidokiBarbie · 31/08/2022 18:59

I'd say the above is a female privilege. Just not one that all females can benefit from. My reasoning is because an attractive but low earning male (gym instructor etc) will not likely have the same opportunity to marry up as an attractive woman.

I know loads of the middle class women from my sister's private school married well off guys - very few of them are independently wealthy. They were all well spoken, well educated girls and it seemed a given that most would marry within their social circle as even at school they were dating posh boys from the local private Catholic boys school - Rugby player types etc.

FreudayNight · 31/08/2022 19:25

TokidokiBarbie · 24/08/2022 22:04

If you actually look at the historical data it paints a very different picture from 'commonly accepted truth'. See below - apologies for the huge cut and paste.

The theory that women perpetrate intimate partner violence at roughly similar rates as men has been termed "gender symmetry". The earliest empirical evidence of gender symmetry was presented in the 1975 U.S. National Family Violence Survey carried out by Murray A. Straus and Richard J. Gelles on a nationally representative sample of 2,146 "intact families". The survey found 11.6% of women and 12% of men had experienced some kind of intimate partner violence in the last twelve months, also 4.6% of men and 3.8% of women had experienced "severe" intimate partner violence.

Since 1975, numerous other empirical studies have found evidence of gender symmetry in intimate partner violence. For example, in the United States, the National Comorbidity Study of 1990-1992 found 18.4% of men and 17.4% of women had experienced minor intimate partner violence, and 5.5% of men and 6.5% of women had experienced severe intimate partner violence.[48][49]

In England and Wales, the 1995 "Home Office Research Study 191" found that in the twelve months prior to the survey, 4.2% of both men and woman between the ages of 16 and 59 had been assaulted by an intimate.[50]

The Canadian General Social Survey of 2000 found that from 1994 to 1999, 4% of men and 4% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship in which they were still involved, 22% of men and 28% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship which had now ended, and 7% of men and 8% of women had experienced intimate partner violence across all relationships, past and present.[35]

The 2005 Canadian General Social Survey, looking at the years 1999–2004 found similar data; 4% of men and 3% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship in which they were still involved, 16% of men and 21% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship which had now ended, and 6% of men and 7% of women had experienced intimate partner violence across all relationships, past and present.[36]

The 1975 National Family Violence Survey found that 27.7% of intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by men alone, 22.7% by women alone and 49.5% were bidirectional. In order to counteract claims that the reporting data was skewed, female-only surveys were conducted, asking females to self-report, resulting in almost identical data.[52]

The 1985 National Family Violence Survey found 25.9% of IPV cases perpetrated by men alone, 25.5% by women alone, and 48.6% were bidirectional.[53]

A study conducted in 2007 by Daniel J. Whitaker, Tadesse Haileyesus, Monica Swahn, and Linda S. Saltzman, of 11,370 heterosexual U.S. adults aged 18 to 28 found that 24% of all relationships had some violence. Of those relationships, 49.7% of them had reciprocal violence. In relationships without reciprocal violence, women committed 70% of all violence.

In 1997, Philip W. Cook conducted a study of 55,000 members of the United States Armed Forces, finding bidirectionality in 60-64% of intimate partner violence cases, as reported by both men and women.[55]

The 2001 National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health found that 49.7% of intimate partner violence cases were reciprocal and 50.3% were non-reciprocal. When data provided by men only was analyzed, 46.9% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 53.1% as non-reciprocal. When data provided by women only was analyzed, 51.3% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 49.7% as non-reciprocal. The overall data showed 70.7% of non-reciprocal intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by women only (74.9% when reported by men; 67.7% when reported by women) and 29.3% were perpetrated by men only (25.1% when reported by men; 32.3% when reported by women).[56]

The 2006 thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study "revealed an overwhelming body of evidence that bidirectional violence is the predominant pattern of perpetration; and this ... indicates that the etiology of ipv is mostly parallel for men and women". The survey found for "any physical violence", a rate of 31.2%, of which 68.6% was bidirectional, 9.9% was perpetrated by men only, and 21.4% by women only. For severe assault, a rate of 10.8% was found, of which 54.8% was bidirectional, 15.7% perpetrated by men only, and 29.4% by women only.[57]

In 2000, John Archer conducted a meta-analysis of eighty-two IPV studies. He found that "women were slightly more likely than men to use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently. Men were more likely to inflict an injury, and overall, 62% of those injured by a partner were women."[58] By contrast, the U.S. Department of Justice finds that women make up 84% of spouse abuse victims and 86% of victims of abuse by a boyfriend or girlfriend.[59]

From 2010 to 2012, scholars of domestic violence from the U.S., Canada and the U.K. assembled The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge, a research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies, the largest of its kind. Among its findings:[63]"

  • More women (23%) than men (19.3%) have been assaulted at least once in their lifetime.
  • Rates of female-perpetrated violence are higher than male-perpetrated (28.3% vs. 21.6%).
  • Male and female IPV are perpetrated from similar motives.
  • Studies comparing men and women in the power/control motive have mixed results overall.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men#:~:text=The%20theory%20that%20women%20perpetrate,Straus%20and%20Richard%20J.

So how do they explain the “gender asymmetry” in the number of murdrers?

If women were approximately as violent as men, we would see that reflected in convictions for PIV murder. And we don’t- so any theory of symmetry needs to reflect more than self reporting and also look at convictions for independently verifiable events.

Like that safety at work pyramid that has for every workplace death there are x serious accidents and y near misses and so on.

the principle also applies for road deaths

TokidokiBarbie · 31/08/2022 20:05

If women were approximately as violent as men, we would see that reflected in convictions for PIV murder. And we don’t- so any theory of symmetry needs to reflect more than self reporting and also look at convictions for independently verifiable events.

Men are much stronger. A woman would struggle to kill a man with her hands.

ArabellaScott · 31/08/2022 20:52

Men can be shit in many others ways but they generally work harder than women on the whole.

www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/06/its-official-women-work-nearly-an-hour-longer-than-men-every-day/

IrisVersicolor · 31/08/2022 21:04

Men can be shit in many others ways but they generally work harder than women on the whole

Sorry what?

I’m fascinated and amusedly appalled by your posts which all show the same confused jumble of ditziness, ignorance and random prejudice.

In a recent U.S. survey 54% of women are the primary breadwinner in the family.
56.5% of U.K. uni students are female.

Everywhere you look on MN are women run ragged working FT, doing all the childcare, domestic chores while their partners watch TV and play golf.

IrisVersicolor · 31/08/2022 21:05

ArabellaScott · 31/08/2022 20:52

Men can be shit in many others ways but they generally work harder than women on the whole.

www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/06/its-official-women-work-nearly-an-hour-longer-than-men-every-day/

It’s official.

TokidokiBarbie · 31/08/2022 22:08

Why are you posting American data? Here's some UK data from this year.

Most part-time employment was by women (38%), compared to 13% of men. (4 Mar 2022).

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06838/SN06838.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwju-JKC-_H5AhWEWMAKHblxAtMQFnoECBIQBg&usg=AOvVaw0yw5m1V0pwS4ZHo5zftEOV

More than a quarter (28%) of men work overtime everyday compared to 13% of women, according to research from workspace provider Office Freedom. (23 Jun 2022)

www.hrmagazine.co.uk/content/news/men-working-more-overtime-than-women/#:~:text=More%20than%20a%20quarter%20(28,from%20workspace%20provider%20Office%20Freedom.

TokidokiBarbie · 31/08/2022 22:17

I've no desire to turn this into a battle of the sexes. I know most feminists will defend women, often to the point of denying reality/selective reasoning, but I like both sexes equally.

I just see the reality that it's almost always the woman that marries the rich partner and lives a comfortable life whilst bringing in a part time salary, often in a job that would only be averagely paid working full time.

We can cherry pick studies all day but the question remains.... where are all the house husbands? And why do women in general not like it when the man is a lower earner or SAHD? (both are subject much a higher likelihood of female partner filing for divorce).

Female privileges absolutely exist IMO, and one of them is being a lady that lunches.

IrisVersicolor · 31/08/2022 22:41

Because it was a recent survey, with a large sample. In the U.K. around a third of women are the main breadwinner. Interestingly they tend to be substantially poorer than female breadwinners in the US, Canada, Aus and W.Europe.

I’m not sure why you’re posting links on PT working - everyone knows more women work PT because more women have to combine work and childcare. Nothing to do with working ‘less hard’ than men because they’re working as well as doing childcare and domestic work.

Wealthy people tend to marry each other. I know as many men who have married someone wealthier than them as I do women, in fact possibly more.

IrisVersicolor · 31/08/2022 22:45

SAHDs are at home doing childcare or mixing work and childcare as SAHMs.

Felix125 · 01/09/2022 12:52

YouAreNotBatman · 31/08/2022 12:31

@TokidokiBarbie
I’ve never heard of female privilege before!
Do you have other examples?
The one you gave wasn’t female privilege per se, more of a pretty girl privilege.

For domestic violence, there are no help organisations in our area for male victims. There are no funded hostels for male victims. There is no financial support for them. Organisations that gave a 'help hamper' to female victims of sexual crime but don't provide anything to a male victim.

Loads of organisations have a policies for 'lone females' in need who are away from their home. Such as motoring recovery agents, ambulances, taxis - some taxis will even transport stranded females home for free - yet 75% of all violent crime on the streets show the victims as being male. You're far more likely to be murdered as a male than a female.

ArabellaScott · 01/09/2022 12:58

Yes, Felix, and I'm sure you can tell us about the difference in victim profiles, too, can't you? By sex.

IrisVersicolor · 01/09/2022 13:32

Women and gay men have organised their own da networks and shelters. Straight men in some areas haven’t bothered. Whose responsibility is that?

You’re more likely to be murdered on the street if you’re male, you’re more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted or sexually harassed on the streets if you’re female. You’re more likely to be murdered by a current or past partner if you’re female.

itwasntmetho · 01/09/2022 14:00

A lot of females do self exclude from the pool of people out in the streets at night.

I left a party in East London Sunday night, I wanted to walk to the nearest tube and I couldn't get from the pub to the tube without being stopped twice for unsolicited compliments , having someone follow me across the road when I tried to loose him as he thought I'd like "someone to walk with". I said I'll just get a bus, waited at a lit bus stop with people around and a car with two men pulled up beside the bus stop and offered me a lift. Not kidding, I'm a very average looking person, I happened to be wearing a dress as it was my friends wedding reception. It's frightening out there.

Felix125 · 01/09/2022 17:37

IrisVersicolor · 01/09/2022 13:32

Women and gay men have organised their own da networks and shelters. Straight men in some areas haven’t bothered. Whose responsibility is that?

You’re more likely to be murdered on the street if you’re male, you’re more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted or sexually harassed on the streets if you’re female. You’re more likely to be murdered by a current or past partner if you’re female.

The women only shelters are funded by local government as are the support services. There is no funding for any male shelters or support agencies. And there are no male voluntary support agencies in my area either. For a female victim of DV I can offer refuges, support networks, safe houses etc etc. The best I can do for a male victim is ask if he has a friend he can go and stay with for a bit.

Yes - on the street you are more likely to be attacked or murdered as a male. Yet there are numerous campaigns to 'make the streets safer for women & girls' which I am in all favour of - but men have to fend for themselves as there is no support on the streets for them.

RoseslnTheHospital · 01/09/2022 17:50

Perhaps you could direct male victims to ManKind

www.mankind.org.uk/help-for-victims/

Government did not just decide to create and fund refuges for women. They were created and funded by women for women and women have fought for the funding that they do receive from central govt. You seem to very much begrudge women the support they have created for themselves.

thedancingbear · 01/09/2022 18:20

Felix125 · 01/09/2022 17:37

The women only shelters are funded by local government as are the support services. There is no funding for any male shelters or support agencies. And there are no male voluntary support agencies in my area either. For a female victim of DV I can offer refuges, support networks, safe houses etc etc. The best I can do for a male victim is ask if he has a friend he can go and stay with for a bit.

Yes - on the street you are more likely to be attacked or murdered as a male. Yet there are numerous campaigns to 'make the streets safer for women & girls' which I am in all favour of - but men have to fend for themselves as there is no support on the streets for them.

Most 'assaults' against men are in fact fights - and it takes two to tango.

And who are they overwhelmingly fighting against - other men.

I don't know why you expect women to sort these problems out.

thedancingbear · 01/09/2022 18:22

RoseslnTheHospital · 01/09/2022 17:50

Perhaps you could direct male victims to ManKind

www.mankind.org.uk/help-for-victims/

Government did not just decide to create and fund refuges for women. They were created and funded by women for women and women have fought for the funding that they do receive from central govt. You seem to very much begrudge women the support they have created for themselves.

Yep.

DV against men is a problem. But it is men who need to make provision for that. Those in positions of power (politicians and others) are overwhelmingly men. Men have caused the problem and show zero interest in fixing it.

IrisVersicolor · 01/09/2022 18:35

Felix125 · 01/09/2022 17:37

The women only shelters are funded by local government as are the support services. There is no funding for any male shelters or support agencies. And there are no male voluntary support agencies in my area either. For a female victim of DV I can offer refuges, support networks, safe houses etc etc. The best I can do for a male victim is ask if he has a friend he can go and stay with for a bit.

Yes - on the street you are more likely to be attacked or murdered as a male. Yet there are numerous campaigns to 'make the streets safer for women & girls' which I am in all favour of - but men have to fend for themselves as there is no support on the streets for them.

Like I said, women and gay men fought hard to set up the services that were needed. That’s why women’s da services have funding (which as it goes are always being cut). And because 2 women a week are murdered by their partner or ex partner - so there is acute need.

Straight men have not taken it upon themselves to set up comparable services and request for government money. Nothing is stopping you from setting that up in your community - that’s what women had to do. They didn’t sit around expecting it to be done for them.

More men are killed on the streets because they tend to get into fights and get into gangs.

ArabellaScott · 01/09/2022 18:53

Women's shelters were set up by women, for women. Grassroots. Out of a desperate need.

There is absolutely nothing at all stopping men from doing the same for each other.

In various local areas, women's aid groups have lost funding in favour of 'gender neutral' provision, too, so it varies from area to area what is available.

ArabellaScott · 01/09/2022 18:54

Sorry, I hadn't read your comment before I posted, Iris.

This is one service that lost funding so that a 'gender neutral' service could be provided.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4175951-Monklands-Womans-Aid-lose-contract-given-to-gender-neutral-facilities?page=4

worriedatthistime · 01/09/2022 19:45

@forgetit223 yes thats very much how it is on here
Women crimes in general seem to be going up or thats how it seems when you read in the media
Also how some behave around me they kick off just as much as the men in pubs etc