Domestic abuse- male victims & statistics

[MrsGhastlyCrumb]

So: I was at a class this evening where we were informed that about 20% of police call-outs for DA involve male victims.

Now, I do recognise that there are male victims, which is of course awful, but this seems high to me. I have certainly encountered and heard of male abusers calling in counter claims against their female partners in order to cover themselves. Is it possible that this is more widespread than I realised, therefore accounting for a large proportion of the numbers we were quoted, or is it genuinely that high, do you think?

TIA for your thoughts.

Mate ignore the responses like that. We’ll done for posting. Unfortunately on this site you’ll get a mix of understanding, and nastiness.

I know the support is limited, but hopefully you’ll find something on here that helps, even if it’s just sharing your experience.

@thedancingbear this is literally a thread about male victims. Very poor of you to respond like that!

Surely the point is that this is a discussion thread in a Feminist topic not a support thread. So the responses will be very different to those if it were posted in Relationships or Chat.

It's not a thread for male victims.

It's a thread about

male abusers calling in counter claims against their female partners in order to cover themselves

-and the resulting distortion of DV statistics. No-one is disputing that there are isolated cases of men genuinely being abused, but this isn't a support thread for them. There are other forums they can visit for that. Their problems are emphatically not for feminists to sort out.

I'm sorry for posting here.
Clearly I didn't understand the thread

You can waffle away and try to justify it all you want, but we both know people would object if it said 'jew hating' instead.

Hey no worries, you’re welcome here, it’s a thread about male victims of abuse.

I’m sorry to hear of your situation, you’ve probably been in touch with Mankind and Respect as you’ve mentioned charities - I’m sorry if you didn’t find them helpful.

You’re not doomed but it sounds like you very much need support. No doubt you’re aware that the status quo is bad for the children. So if you can find the strength to consider leaving it would benefit them.

@DillonPanthersTexas

Why are you so keen to downplay the problem? As I mentioned way back at the start of this thread it is not a zero sum game, highlighting the fact that women can be perpetrators of domestic violence towards men does not in anyway diminish the fact that women are more likely to be victims.

Can you point to what, in the paragraph you quote, ‘downplays’ the problem?

Maybe it popped up in active threads.

Plenty of men use mumsnet as it's a forum for parents, not just women. The poster has already stated he is a hands on dad so it's not hard to imagine.

I'd hope that if I was in a similar situation people wouldn't be trying to make me feel bad for posting. It can be hard enough to open up and any perceived hostility might make them reluctant next time.

@TokidokiBarbie oh, did you remember where you read that quote that you've attributed to Robin Morgan? What was the context in which you encountered it? It would be useful to know what led you to it and what the context of the quote is.

By the way the reason people would object if the word 'man' was swapped for Jew is that Jewish people have not historically and continually oppressed women explicitly and implicitly across all societies. It's a false comparison.

As the wife of a DV detective, the results for both men AND women are off due to false allegations being recorded because they have to. The first few MONTHS of my husbands job, he had more false allegations of r@pE and DV from women more than men than real jobs and some were blatantly obvious lies. Men are less likely to put out false allegations than women, but it does happen and yet for men there is a massive stigma so I would say it is about 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 that are true victims that need severe help but for one reason or another, might not.

Whether the allegation is true or not, it gets marked as DV and investigated. I have seen many cases of "DV" being because the woman wants the man out of the house and calls in for police to do it for her but let's him back in the next day. So there is falsehoods on both sides but men are still statistically less likely to speak out so even if the 20% might seem huge to you, I would say there is another 5 to 10% out there still being quiet and suffering.

No idea where I originally read it. I just vaguely remembered it and had to Google it. BTW Google is a good tool to learn more about things you're interested in. 😉

On your second point, I don't really think there is even much justification in hating an entire demographic. My mate's son lives in an area with a lot of crime committed by ethnic minorities and has been mugged twice, one time requiring stitches from being headbutted. Is he allowed to hate all black people now, or does it need to be more systemic? What are the rules? Surely if a woman can hate a class based on what has been done to other women (not necessarily herself) then somebody can hate a class for violence they actually experienced themself from that class.

I really wouldn't take a victim allowing their abuser back in as evidence that the abuse is fabricated. That's a very naive assumption for someone claiming to have so much inside information.

Do you think that the quote attributed to Robin Morgan is actually talking about hate? As a previous poster asked, why do you think the phrase 'man-hate' is in single quotes?

Regarding your repeated point about groups of people... I see we're now onto ethnicity after a quick tour through anti-semitism... again, have black people as a group historically and continually oppressed other ethnic groups, denied them basic human rights, throughout history and across societies?

And fyi is you drop a quote that is meant to justify your position the onus is on you to check its veracity and give a source. You have no idea of the origin of that quote so can't answer any questions about what the author was arguing for or against. Yet apparently that's enough information for you to make decisions about feminism as a whole.

windsweptandinteresting
I would say you are welcome here to share your opinions and experiences - its a chat forum designed to be open for people to discuss things. I find a some people here tend to tell you to 'go away' when they can't engage in the debate.

thedancingbear & ArabellaScott
From your posts on page 8

I haven't said its a women's problem to sort out - i am merely pointing out an observation that there is no support for male victims to a level that's even close to the support a female victim can receive.

I was actually replying to a poster a few pages back concerning 'female privilege' - YouAreNotBatman who was wanting any examples. So I posted some, so I'm not mithering - I'm replying to her post. If you don't like that, don't join in with the conversation.

Most assaults against men are just that - assault, where you have a victim who has been attacked without provocation. If it had been a fight between two men, its crimed as an affray or public order crime, which is a state based crime and won't be reflected in the assault stats. Just because a man has been assaulted, doesn't mean to say he has had some sort of responsibility for it - that's victim blaming.

I'm not expecting women to fix the issues of lack of support for male victims - i would like society as a whole to do this. I have campaigned, i have brought this up time & time again at safeguarding & DV meetings. DV units have campaigned, women's aid services have also campaigned on our behalf to no avail. No funds available, no plans to change anything. The current campaign is safer streets for women and girls - which I am all for - but can we not make them safe for all victims?

I don’t know how you make men take da against men seriously. All I can say women and gay men didn’t wait around for something that was not likely to happen, they just raised their own funds in the beginning.

Re safer streets - there are campaigns and charities against knife crime, there are firearms surrender campaigns, there are gang charities and initiatives. Safer streets already applies to everyone.

Women and girls self exclude from the streets a lot of the time, they go to the expense of getting taxis from places that are within walking distance.
I'd be shocked if women were 50% of people out for the picking after the pubs kick out. The earlier messages that women wear the wrong clothes and walk the wrong routes to expect to be safe really did their job at putting the responsibility onto women to avoid being raped on the way home.
The safer streets funds are for safer streets for all and specified reducing VAWG (which includes sexual violence, it doesn't begin and end at homicide) and street harassment as one of it's aims alongside neighbourhood crime and antisocial behaviour.
The funds have gone to police forces, local authorities and transport police, funded extra CCTV and streetlighting, in some areas initiatives like boxing and football to divert young people from crime. Let's not pretend it won't benefit males too.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/safer-streets-fund-round-4-application-process

itwasntmetho
I agree - and i hope it benefits everyone

But we still have scenarios where lone females will be prioritised by taxi firms, breakdown services, patient transports - yet the statistics show that you more likely to suffer violent crime on the streets as a male.

Why don't firms prioritise lone people?

Our area is also pretty much 50/50 males/females out at all times of the day & night. Different people out at different times, but pretty much 50/50

What proportion of the men suffering violent crimes on the street are alone?

Just making sure they are equivalent to the lone females being prioritized.

I’ve never experienced a taxi firm prioritising me because I was a lone female. I’ve experienced sexual harassment from taxi drivers though. Have you?

The statistics show that women far are more likely to be sexually harassed, sexually assaulted or raped than men. This crimes are far more common than murder.

Although there have been women abucted/murdered waiting for breakdown services, I think that’s why they’re regarded as a priority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Marie_Wilks

I think a lot people just fail to see sexual assault and rape as a form of actual violence and categorise as sexual instead.
When a woman is raped her life is irrevocably changed, yes I know men are raped too but not as often. Just because prosecution rarely happens doesn't make it lesser than physical assault.
618,000 women are raped or sexually assaulted in the UK every year, most don't even bother asking for justice 5 in 6 don't report. Maybe that's why you don't give a shit see it in your role Felix.

I know some people don't see rape as a crime of violence - but I certainly do and from my role I see the effect it has on victims/survivors.

So I can't see how you can justifiably say i don't care about them?

There are various reasons why rape victims/survivors don't ask for justice and quite a few don't want it. They don't want to go through the court process and re-live it all again. And I'm certainly not going to put any pressure on a victims/survivor to go to court because it makes the detection figures look better.

My point is - there is little help I can offer male victims of violence as apposed to the help available to female victims.

I'm not saying that any of the help offered to female victims should stop - I'm all in favour of it and long may it continue. But perhaps help should be available to victims regardless of their gender.

Taxi firms do where we are - and we can often use them to take lone females back to their homes if necessary - but the taxi companies are not as accommodating to a lone male, unless he can pay of course.

The statistics show that women far are more likely to be sexually harassed, sexually assaulted or raped than men - yes I agree with that. But statistics also show that men are far more likely to be victims of violent crime and murder.

Perhaps help should be available to victims regardless of their gender.

Perhaps you, Felix, could organise the help for victims who you believe need more help than there is currently - contact men only organisations and ask them to donate money to set up a mens shelter, perhaps. Or fund raise every weekend, crowd fund, do charity events etc etc to raise the money for mens shelters. Surely men would want to help other men in this situation, just as you do?