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Amber Heard&Johnny Depp verdict

1000 replies

Miscfeminista · 31/05/2022 14:28

Continuation of previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552076-amber-heardjohnny-depp-trial?page=36&reply=117586863

Speculations on verdict, news related to it, insights into specifics of legal matters, opinions and impressions…let’s keep it going and see how verdict finds us >>>>>>>>>>

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9
Innocenta · 02/06/2022 08:57

@Autumndays123 Except JD did abuse her.

TimeTravelSickness · 02/06/2022 08:57

Notadogowner · 02/06/2022 08:49

I think those going on about the texts are focussing on it too much.

I’m sure I have old text messages to friends on my phone wishing my cheating abusive ex would burn in hell or something nasty would happen to him. I was very hurt and angry at the time.

But I have never been violent or aggressive ever.

People can say all sorts when angry or hurt.

Take away the texts then, even though they are horrifying.

There’s still the history of Depps violent past behaviour. It still makes no sense that anyone that has his history would be portrayed as a gentleman, a hero and an all round nice guy. He’s not a good person, not a gentleman, definitely no hero.

Applesonthelawn · 02/06/2022 08:57

Legally this was an uphill battle for him and I'm relieved justice prevailed. I was never a fan of his but I'm genuinely pleased for him now.

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 08:58

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Marilla27 · 02/06/2022 08:58

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Pushingnic · 02/06/2022 08:59

Cantanka · 01/06/2022 21:08

Exactly.

I am disgusted.

do you not think men can be victims of domestic violence?

why should women be able to get up there and lie to millions of people (people who have been real victims of domestic violence) and get away with it. It’s insulting to the real victims actually. She lied and lied again.

Hes not perfect obviously but I agree with the jury, the evidence from both sides pointed towards him being the abused partner. Would you talk to someone you are terrified of the way she spoke to him for a start?

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 08:59

Also, the idea that wishing your ex would burn in hell is equivalent to describing raping a woman's corpse... that's quite some reach.

Unsure33 · 02/06/2022 08:59

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 08:38

@Unsure33 There is absolutely no point me personally trying to explain the intricacies of sex based violence to you. I would absolutely recommend you do some reading about it, but I know you won't.

However - I am a lesbian and I have actually been abused by a woman, so I am well aware women can be abusive. It's risible for you to presume that just because someone has an informed feminist perspective about violence and abuse, they somehow think all women are perfect angels. There is no way you are in a place to have an actual conversation about this with me, you've made that clear from your posts, but perhaps one day you'll be more open to reflecting on the reality of how sex shapes men and women's differing experiences of violence.

i think you are misrepresenting what I have said . I also have experienced abuse and sexual violence. And that is why I am angry . Because her lies could mean that genuine victims won’t come forward.

and btw her girlfriend was thrown out of court for breaking the rules and passing notes to her team

and there are posts out there from AH threading to strangle a man with her bare hands .

so thats ok is it ?

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 08:59

@Pushingnic I haven't seen anyone say men cannot be victims of DV. That is just a MRA talking point.

Dashdotdotdash · 02/06/2022 09:02

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Blossomtoes · 02/06/2022 09:04

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 08:51

@Blossomtoes That's an inaccurate description of what occurred.

It’s my perception which is as valid as yours.

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 09:07

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Innocenta · 02/06/2022 09:10

@Blossomtoes No, what you're saying is factually inaccurate since JD brought the case. That's something that can't be rhetorically inverted.

Autumndays123 · 02/06/2022 09:10

AdamRyan · 01/06/2022 21:18

I'm so confused
It looks like the jury said she wasn't abused but also it was a lie to say the abuse was a hoax
Have to admit, I didn't see a scenario where they both won

I'm also struggling to understand how people are failing to understand the verdict.

The verdict was not that both were abused or that JD both abused and did not abuse AH - it's nowhere near that. The jury were asked to find against JD if they believe there was ever just one instance of abuse on his part, they found there wasn't. They also found that not only were ALL of her statements false, she said them with malice, meaning she made them up to hurt him.

AH winning a part of her counter claim does not mean they also think JD abused her. She Los two counts of her counter claim that were very general statements. She won the one that was very specific. The wording of the statement that was defamatory was that on a specific night, she roughed herself up, called the police who didn't make a report, so called her friends and publicist to come and smash up the penthouse, then called the police again to have JD arrested. The jury found there was not enough evidence to prove that is exactly what happened on that night and she wanted him arrested that night.

I'm baffled as to how people are unable to grasp that, it's very simple.

As for those talking about the UK trial. You'll note AH talking in the US trial about this piece of evidence and that piece of evidence that she provided that wasn't shown. The reason it wasn't shown is the judge would not allow it onto evidence. The reason why it wasn't allowed into evidence was there were inconsistencies and issues with the evidence that called into question whether it was authentic. This was never questioned in the UK trial, they just blindly accepted everything.

It's also worth remembering that the vast lies that AH told in this trial only came out in this trial. The UK judge did not know that she repeatedly perjured herself when they made the decision. I think it's also worth remembering that only JD agreed to give his phone over to be analysed for the trials - AH refused both times. So yes, we do see the truly awful messages JD sent his friends about AH but whatever was on her phone, she risked being sanctioned rather than handing it over. To me that is quite telling.

The jury were unanimous in their verdict, they did not believe a single word of what she said. I personally don't blame them having seen her on the stand, her 'performance' was shocking.

It saddens me that so-called feminists are using this case to bash out their views about women and poor AH being punished for being a DV victim. It doesn't make you a feminist to blindly believe all women, especially those whose evidence was found to be fabricated and who has considerable evidence pointing towards them as an abuser.

AH will become untouchable in Hollywood now and rightly so. I would however say she clearly has mental health issues that run quite deep and they manifest in a way that makes her violent, calculating, manipulative and damaging. I've said it before and I will say it again, she does not come across as a person who should have the sole care of a baby. I hope there is an intervention there and it's not a cash of she's rich and famous so the US equivalent of SS turn a blind eye.

Chulainn · 02/06/2022 09:10

toconclude · 02/06/2022 06:20

How can you ask this question seriously? It's damaged it precisely because any abusive prick and any of their enablers can now say "but but but AH" - and they are saying it, in droves on social media
And women will be cowed by it and Police will go back to their default "are you sure it wasn't just a tiff love?" bs.
Women will suffer and die because of this verdict. 100% guaranteed.

Do you think AH should have won, despite lying both in this case and under oath in London, because it's a better outcome for genuine dv victims? This case was judged on the evidence and testimony and the jury found that either JD gave enough credible evidence to show the jury he didn't abuse / sexually abuse AH or AH did not make the case that he did.

This outcome may be detrimental for future dv victims but that's not on the jury or JD. Why should JD have false allegations made against him in order to protect future victims? The person who is responsible for this is AH and I don't understand why people on this thread can't see that and why anyone who points it out is accused of misogyny or of being stupid. AH made a strong point with the TMZ photo. JD didn't sue. She could have left it there. Her career was on the ascendancy, things were good for her. She chose to write the article. She chose to lie under oath in the Sun trial. She lacked credibility in this case. All the direct evidence was of her being abusive. There was none of him being abusive. It doesn't mean he wasn't but it was damaging to her side. She wasn't a good witness at times. Her lawyers weren't strong at times. Crucially she opened the door for Kate Moss's to rebut a damaging rumour. Whatever the implications of this verdict will be, AH is largely responsible for what will happen. I don't think it's fair to blame JD for future victims being disbelieved. That's on AH as she was caught out in lies that didn't have to be made. It's possible the verdict would have been different if she'd been a credible witness. I also don't agree with the weaponising of this case or verdict against victims of abuse. Each victim has the right to live without abuse and to get justice for any abuse suffered.

I'm not a misogynist. I'm simply stating what I see from 1 court case based on the evidence and testimony I watched and heard in that particular case.

Dashdotdotdash · 02/06/2022 09:14

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greatblueheron · 02/06/2022 09:14

TimeTravelSickness · 02/06/2022 08:36

Regardless of anything else, Depp is known to have sent horrendous texts and has a history of violent behaviour amongst other things. Yet, he’s being presented as a gentleman, a hero, a nice guy. Even if you think Amber is a terrible person, I can’t get my head around Depp being portrayed as a good man. It this obsession we seem to have with having a good and a bad person, taking sides, picking a team. No one in their right mind can say Depp is a good man, regardless of their thoughts on Amber. Yet they do.

Completely agree with this. He's vile. And yet women everywhere love him based on his screen image and men everywhere feel vindicated for their own bad behaviour towards women by seeing this kind of support for him.

It's a huge step back for women who apparently have to be saints for abusive behaviour towards them to 'count'.

Autumndays123 · 02/06/2022 09:14

colouringindoors · 01/06/2022 23:28

It's very strange to read comments like puffalo's in the feminism board. Her abuse claims were proven. This case was about whether she has the right to talk about her abuse and her abuser in public, turns out she does not.

Exactly.

Good grief I sometimes think the people jumping on these threads haven't even watched the trial.

The jury were asked to decide whether AH had ever been abused by JD as part of their decision making. They literally answered the question that was read out along the lines of "we find the claims of sexual and physical abuse made by AH were false - YES". It's really really simple. I despair sometimes

Oscarthedog · 02/06/2022 09:15

I know this is the feminism section but the misandry on here is shocking. She had a trial in the UK during the height of the me too movement in one of the more woke countries which is trying to do something about low conviction rates (it shouldn't it should just provide justice). When sued for defamation in a less politically charged environment she lost having lied and shown to be a vile person. Hopefully this shows political interference to force up conviction rates shouldn't happen. The police's job is to investigate if a crime has been committed and provide evidence to the CPS for charging. Not to just blindly believe because they are a woman. The militant feminism we see on here setting men against women is exactly the sort of thing that drives people away from feminism and the feminist cause.

FloydPepper · 02/06/2022 09:16

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 08:59

@Pushingnic I haven't seen anyone say men cannot be victims of DV. That is just a MRA talking point.

Not on this thread, not openly

but I have seen it on mumsnet before. Regularly. Only a few posters and often the same ones but there’s a definite group who consistently deny men can suffer abuse.

im always disappointed mn allow it, but they do

CaptSkippy · 02/06/2022 09:17

I actually feel sick after this verdict.

I learned years ago that the majority of men hate an awful lot of women. But I did not grow up with that believe.
Knowing that men hate women, but still want a "relationship" with them makes little sense to me. So many men see woman as objects that are useful to them and sometimes that they can abuse. So many women are miserable in relationships (as the many daily threads on this forum prove).

Still though, knowing how much men hate us and get off on hurting us (see porn-use they want to act out on a woman's body) still hurts. It hurts to be hated, especially when you grew up believing otherwise.

I had already decided never to date again, never to have sex with a man again and never to get into another relationship. I really didn't need another reminder of the toxic misogynist stew in which we women live our lives. I also fear for the women siding with Depp. They think that shit couldn't happen to them and they are in more danger than the women being realistic about this. Because once they do get hit, they'll be too ashamed to admit they were wrong and will stay with their abuser longer. I suspect this is partly what happened to Amber too.

I already hear that men abusing their female "partners" have replaced "Karen" with "Amber". Things are going downhill quickly.

This rant is going nowhere. I just want to get this off my chest,

Oscarthedog · 02/06/2022 09:20

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FloydPepper · 02/06/2022 09:20

Autumndays123 · 02/06/2022 09:14

Good grief I sometimes think the people jumping on these threads haven't even watched the trial.

The jury were asked to decide whether AH had ever been abused by JD as part of their decision making. They literally answered the question that was read out along the lines of "we find the claims of sexual and physical abuse made by AH were false - YES". It's really really simple. I despair sometimes

Spot on. The legals are actually pretty clear but some are just ignoring them.

I post on threads regarding abuse of men sometimes as it seems to be a mumsnet blind spot. This thread is no different and contains a few apologists for it, as usual

dumdumduuuummmmm · 02/06/2022 09:21

CaptSkippy · 02/06/2022 09:17

I actually feel sick after this verdict.

I learned years ago that the majority of men hate an awful lot of women. But I did not grow up with that believe.
Knowing that men hate women, but still want a "relationship" with them makes little sense to me. So many men see woman as objects that are useful to them and sometimes that they can abuse. So many women are miserable in relationships (as the many daily threads on this forum prove).

Still though, knowing how much men hate us and get off on hurting us (see porn-use they want to act out on a woman's body) still hurts. It hurts to be hated, especially when you grew up believing otherwise.

I had already decided never to date again, never to have sex with a man again and never to get into another relationship. I really didn't need another reminder of the toxic misogynist stew in which we women live our lives. I also fear for the women siding with Depp. They think that shit couldn't happen to them and they are in more danger than the women being realistic about this. Because once they do get hit, they'll be too ashamed to admit they were wrong and will stay with their abuser longer. I suspect this is partly what happened to Amber too.

I already hear that men abusing their female "partners" have replaced "Karen" with "Amber". Things are going downhill quickly.

This rant is going nowhere. I just want to get this off my chest,

I'm sorry you have the view of men you have. There are many wonderful kind caring men. I'm sorry you never found them

MarshaBradyo · 02/06/2022 09:22

Autumndays123 · 02/06/2022 09:14

Good grief I sometimes think the people jumping on these threads haven't even watched the trial.

The jury were asked to decide whether AH had ever been abused by JD as part of their decision making. They literally answered the question that was read out along the lines of "we find the claims of sexual and physical abuse made by AH were false - YES". It's really really simple. I despair sometimes

i can’t say I can remember all the questions but it’s I agree it’s worth looking at to see what was included

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