Amber Heard&Johnny Depp verdict

[Miscfeminista]

Continuation of previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552076-amber-heardjohnny-depp-trial?page=36&reply=117586863

Speculations on verdict, news related to it, insights into specifics of legal matters, opinions and impressions…let’s keep it going and see how verdict finds us >>>>>>>>>>

Good more recent article:

www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/amber-heard-johnny-depp-verdict-metoo-trial-1361356/

Man

Tone it down a bit. There are differences in percentages of violence towards the other sex we are acutely aware of, however, suicide in men has to be recognised also. Patriarchy which is ingrained and needs to be fixed (from birth basically) will not be a quick fix.

The two sides have different issues unique to them to fight for but there is an absolutely need for recognition and collaboration

From my experience online, I have been surprised at how many men have got less defensive and are sharing their stories and also have supported women and vice versa. It's not a them and us. I think this case is pivotal in that regard and not to be wasted!

Again Misc you've posted a MSM biased article. I find these unhelpful from both sides btw.

Engaging with other people directly, despite opposing views is way better to get your point across.

Am I wasting my time? 😂. I'm trying.

@Manlyman
I understand things perfectly. I know what you are and your friends are doing well enough. I think most women would as well, let alone men. Women have husbands, fathers, sons, brothers they love and want to protect against such views.
^^^
I certainly have.
Women are equal to men.
Not better than men.

I think a certain someone's opinion and viewpoint is so ingrained you won't get far.

I'd leave them be, it's their opinion, they are entitled to it. It's no harm to hold a opinion I suppose 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm not answering your questions. Do your own research. If you already have done so and you still believe the stuff you've posted then you aren't asking those questions in good faith.

Women have husbands, fathers, sons, brothers they love and want to protect against such views.

Maybe we would be better off as q society if men didn't need to be "protected" from such views and instead tried to engage with them and understand where women who hold them are coming from.

If I'd been bitten by dogs as many times as I've been sexually assaulted by men, noone would blame me if I said I was scared of dogs or hated dogs.

Yet if I talk about my experiences with men it's straight away "not all men are like that", "misandrist", "maybe you lied", "women do it too" blah blah blah.

It feels like gaslighting on an Epic scale, and although I've been a bit unlucky I think many women are in a similar situation.

Am I wasting my time?
I think it depends on what you're trying to achieve. Personally, having spent the best part of the last 25 years in an all male household, I hear men's opinions day in, day out. I love them dearly but I like to hear a female perspective too, especially on this case - not specifically pro Heard or pro Depp, just women's views. It's why I'm here.

Definitely. This is a woman's space. Like I said earlier both sides have a uniqueness that belongs to them and them only.

I was seeking the collaboration/understanding bit.

Just to add context to why I might look a bit of a simp, my DH is a DV survivor so I don't only have my experience. We ended up getting married despite coming from opposing ends of abuse

There's hope 😃

In my youth? Quite a lot actually. Called myself a humanist, rejected the feminist label, was all NAMALT and "what about" and what not. I can write a lengthy essay as to why (despite being a victim several times myself) but I think that's irrelevant.

But.. I grew up. I got older and wiser. Lived more, experienced more, learned more,listened more. My views and priorities changed.

So, if you're talking men as class, no I haven't defended them at all in recent years, against feminists or anyone else. If you're talking individual men/boys in specific incidents, then I occasionally have depending on the circumstances.

Exactly. I don't see why would people on a feminist sub have issue with me having ingrained viewpoint and arguing from it-have I asked anywhere"change my opinion"? Yet that seems to be what motivates some posters frustration or that they find and inherent flaw-that I have a viewpoint I am not changing thoughout threads(like many others I should mention but that doesn't seem to be an issue)

Misc
Totally respect your stance and love engaging, although not agreeing on everything, in a safe space.

@Manlyman

I think it's fair to say he lost work because he let his looks go , he's still fit, that's true, but not the same, and almost all women who hit a certain age don't get any decent acting or singing work anymore, so the fact he even assumes he should at his age is male privilege. Look at his ex-wife, majorly talented and beautiful but career took a nosedive when she had kids and as beautiful as she still is, she's considered to have 'gone off the boil'. JD's entitlement to acting work shows this isn't a male dilemma in quite the same way.
Then there's the fact according to Amber the cree would have to miss days of filming because he was too out of it to turn up and apparently that's not the work culture at all in the movie industry

Crew

I agree with most of that London but to add nuance JD has always been crap at time keeping (he has ADHD) always had substance abuse issues since age 12. It's nothing holllywood didn't already know but they tolerated it as the end result brought in billions. They're not stupid.

Now, I'm going to put this out there. Did it get worse since being with AH and that was the tipping point? I think so. People are focusing on when she wrote the Oped, not that he was in this toxic relationship prior.

Apart from "let his looks go". Older men can turn their hand to different roles. And there no doubt he is a talented actor.

And in reverse: helen mirren, Judy dench

Man

"Any man with any degree of self respect is going to tell the owner of such views to go to hell"

No, you don't. You ask "why do you feel that way"

Then dialogue opens.

By research you mean learn what I should believe?
No I mean research. Get some objective facts, draw your own conclusions based on those rather than reading other people's opinions.

Surely the best way to open a dialogue is not to insult the person that you are trying to engage in the first place.

Now, I'm going to put this out there. Did it get worse since being with AH and that was the tipping point? I think so.

I don't know the answer but I'm not sure where you're going with this? I've no issue with Heard being held accountable for her own actions, but likewise, Depp's behaviour is his responsibility and his alone, no?

Going by a few tidbits from some of the comments , it looks like we're back to men feelings and egos come before anything else. And the lack of any meaningful engagement is because women won't pander sufficiently to said feelings and egos.

ldontWanna

I suspect that is at least partially aimed at me.

So if someone insulted you would you engage with them?

Whether male or female, at work, in a pub or on a forum, where ever, I wouldn't.

If its about a civil discussion it should be civil from both sides from the get go.