Anyone here who has opt oit having men in their lives?

[YouAreNotBatman]

I was reading about South Korean radfems who don’t date, have sex, marry or have children with men.

They sounded really cool.

It made me wonder if there are other women/feminist who have made similar choice?

Not sure how old he is but have you ever had the conversation with him about why you don't have any other men in your life? Do you think you disliking men as a class affects his own self perception?

I'm very far from controlling but I think you are in too deep to hear what I am saying. Although the fact that you think I am controlling, but you are okay with your husband choking you until you pass out as the means to stop an argument has shocked me.

However whilst my advice may be useless to you, I stand by it, not because I think I know best, or because it gives me a sense of purpose, but because if someone on here at some point is wondering whether it is wrong that their partner is choking or strangling them, my voice will be amongst the many others reassuring them that its not normal, its not right and there is NEVER any justification for it.

It's so annoying that this thread has been hijacked by someone so f-ed up, pandering to penises as though her reality/opinion forms anything like useful data.

I love the idea of women waking up to the fact they don't need men. As someone said earlier - what do most of them bring to the table? I hear so many women talk about male partners as if they are just another child to manage.

It's no wonder the Y chromosome is dying out.

I can't opt out of the Y chromosome completely because I have a ds.

However, I haven't dated or tried to date for 5 years and they have been happy, stable years.

No bullying, no manipulation, no undermining. Being man-free is much less hassle. I'm far better off financially as well. Men are expensive

I haven't yet found anything that I actually NEED a male relationship for except getting pregnant and I won't be doing that again. It would take someone truly extraordinary to tempt me out of singledom.

Yes I find men undermining too in relationships. Not good for the self esteem.

A friend of mine is moving down nearer to where I live and I may end up working with him as my business is so affected by the cost of living crisis I cannot bring in enough to live on. Just not sure I can put up with a man's ways again. Will have to see.

Being single most of ds's upbringing has done me the power of good it really has. It has also given me plenty of time to spend on my ds.

This thread reads kind of incel.

@deydododatdodontdeydo ''This thread reads kind of incel.''

Missing the point entirely...most of the posts are by women who have chosen to be single, are happy in their choice and don't need a man in their life. Also many are making very valid points about having been through abusive relationships and never wanting to put themselves into this situation again.

The people you are referring to are the complete opposite: they are bitter and desperate because women do not want to be in relationship with them, they are certainly not happy with being single and their bitterness often turns to hatred and violence against women.

@Whitehorsegirl

Maybe more MGTOW then.
The same kind of things are being said: "I'm happy to use them for sex but don't want them for anything else".
The bitterness and hatred of the opposite sex is apparent in both.
MGTOW also claim to have suffered at the hands of women.

@RainCloud exactly! I’m not against sex in theory but I’ve had a run of hopeless lovers who had no interest in improving their game. As men don’t come with guarantees/warranties or scorecards it’s like being served a plate of liver and onions and told “you might like it this time, but you’re going to have to eat it all before you find out”.

im long enough in the tooth to be able to give myself an orgasm in under 30 seconds if I need one.

anyway - yes, I steer away from men in general, so overrated. I have one male friend but the more I get to know him the more I see he’s a useless prick who is abusing his wife - although he probably doesn’t see it and she’s busy making excuses. I’m hanging around because one day she’ll need support.

MGTOW are nothing like women who have chosen to step back from men after bad experiences. Bad experiences being violence, abuse, controlling behaviour. Women who are not interested in men don't organise online and don't plan revenge against men. They don't commit mass murders of men due to hate. They don't even hate men, they are just wary of them and want to definitely avoid any further negative interactions.

It's the "men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them" idea again here. It seems to particularly upset men when some women say that they've had enough and aren't interested anymore.

@deydododatdodontdeydo

I don't know what your agenda is as you seem to insist on comparing what women are saying to the beliefs and actions of certain unsavoury men's groups.

My contribution to this thread in an earlier post certainly did not mention ''using men for sex'' either.

It is rather naive to suggest that there aren't issues that women only will face (violent relationships, unequal relationships) that men will never have to face and that it is not valid choice for a woman to be single rather than put up with a dodgy male partner simply because of society's expectations.

If you want to compare that to Incel philosophy it is your choice although it is obviously nonsensical.

Incels believe women, specifically pretty women, owe them sex and are denying something they deserve.

Women are talking about how having a husband can sometimes feel like another child and life can be easier without them.

Yep I can totally see how that comparison works 🙄

MGTOW groups share a belief common among other manosphere groups that women follow a similar pattern in dating and marriage: young and attractive women are promiscuous and engage in "hypergamy", having sex with numerous men and abandoning a man if a "higher-value" man shows interest. They believe women gravitate towards "alpha men" who are attractive but mistreat them, and that this solidifies their beliefs in feminism. As the women begin to age, the MGTOW ideology explains that they choose to settle down with "beta males" who provide for them financially, but to whom they deny sex, sometimes choosing to have sex with attractive men outside of their marriage. Finally, the ideology holds that the women will divorce their husbands, and that courts will favor the women in divorce proceedings due to what they describe as female privilege.

If you are reading the female equivalent of the above from the posts on this thread then I believe you are reading something into the posts that wasn't intended by the posters.

No one is complaining that young men are promiscuous, have sex with lots of women, abandon a woman if a 'higher value' woman turns up, gravitate towards 'alpha women' who mistreat them which solidifies their misogyny. Then as they age settle for 'beta' women from whom they withhold sex or have affairs and then divorce women and withhold CM from women through going self employed (best alternative I could come up with).

What I, and some others are saying, is that marriage/relationships are not necessarily the path we would choose.

And if thats all MGTOW men were saying they probably wouldn't be classed as a hate group any more...

Having a family may be the only thing that bring genuine purpose to your life, but that doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.

I have no intention of getting married, and I never wanted kids. Haven't dated in a few years, by choice and I really don't miss it. I don't miss the complications of a relationship and realise that I ended up becoming a different person in the relationships I had as a younger woman. I was such a people pleaser. Not anymore.

I definitely read before that single women were happier than married women, but that married men are happier than single men. I wonder why? Because single men don't have a skivvy to clean up after them.

And it really bugs me when women intentionally staying single are somehow linked to the lowlifes that are incel males. Women who are single may have some resentment towards men who treated us bad in the past, but we don't organise online to act out violent fantasies, or real life violent acts against men, that would be incel males.
Most intentionally single women create good lives for themselves and relish being independent.

I wouldn't choose to have men in my life. I do have one male friend but only see as part of a group where everyone else is a woman.

IME men are incapable of platonic friendship.

I have sons. But if tech and the law was different I'd have chosen to have only girls. (Behind closed doors I've heard many other mothers saying this)

I see a lot of my DF but he makes no meaningful positive contribution to my life.

I don't go into rooms alone with men I don't want to have sex with as the law does nothing to protect a woman in that situation.

I hate having male workmen in the house and have DP deal with them.

DP is a man but if I ever get into a relationship again I think it would most likely be with a woman. I refuse to do wifework for men.

When I was young and broody men served a purpose for reproduction but IME they generally fail at providing or doing anywhere near the level of parenting a mediocre mother would be expected to do.

I'd recommend sperm donation to young women.

Now I'm older I do still get horney but given how pornified men are and the horrors of OLD I can't really imagine hooking up for fun sex the way I did in my youth. I can't see it being much fun for me...

@felulageller
Isin’t it a bit much to ask young women to remain single and have children on their own, when you didn’t do that yourself?

There is still privileges to be in a relationship.

I don’t think many know what it’s actually lie to be single for years / decades and just wave their arms like it’s nothing and bravely say if they end up single will remain that way, without knowing what it’s actuallu like.

She's not asking. She's recommending! Totally fine for women to ignore that recommendation.

But she is not asking that, she is stating her preference.

There are absolutely benefits to being in a relationship, especially financial, the way the system in the UK is set up benefits couples for example. Its actually quite hard in many areas to live as a single person.

But that doesn't mean if a woman is in a position, or would be in a position to be single that they would be wrong to want to remain that way.

I get your point that its easy for me to say that I would stay single if I ended up becoming single when the longest I spent single as an adult was a couple of years. But the opposite is also true. Being in a relationship is not all sunshine and roses. Many people find sharing space and living with someone quite hard, I am one of them. Its not like being single automatically = hard, and being in a relationship automatically = easy.

But I really do feel like on a feminism board it should be fine to talk about wanting to spend life without a male partner without being criticized for it.

@RoseslnTheHospital & @Maddogsandtoplessenglishmen

Oh yes, I absolutely believe supporting women to be single, I think I may have express myself badly there.

My point pretty much was just that it’s easy to say you’d remain single if something would happen to current partner.

I’ve been single (woman) all my life, so I know from personal experience it’s not something to take/ say lightly.
That’s all.

So, absolutely not criticizing single women, short or long term.

I didn't say the people in this thread were identical to incel or mgtow, just some of the comments seem similar.
Mgtow are happy to use prostitutes for sex, for example, and some commenters in this thread are happy to use men for sex (or sperm in a more recent post).

IME men are incapable of platonic friendship.

I'm in a couple of hobby clubs - dozens of men and women get on platonically all the time, so I can't agree with this.

As far as I can see two posters made comments about still having relationships with men on a sex only basis, neither of them used the phrase "using men for sex". No implication that they would be using them, just having short term, casual relationships or a clear friends with benefits situation.

And using a sperm donor is absolutely nothing at all like using a prostitute. The comparison is bizarre. It's also not "using" men.

I was a single mum for years! I'm talking from my own experience. I found being a single mum easier and preferable to being in a relationship or being in any of the relationships I've seen other mums have.

I've never had a male friend who hasn't tried to grope me when drunk. So I'll make my choices based on that.

im long enough in the tooth to be able to give myself an orgasm in under 30 seconds if I need one

😅

Me too. The best orgasms I have had are when I have been sleeping on why front and they wake me up in the middle of the night. I can keep them going on and off for 2 hours. The next day I'm knackered....literally 😊

Many women lived seemingly fulfilling lives who were born in the late 19th/early 20th century because there were so many men killed in world war one. It is a different reason for some women choosing to live without a relationship with a man, but equally valid.

Many women lived seemingly fulfilling lives who were born in the late 19th/early 20th century because there were so many men killed in world war one. It is a different reason for some women choosing to live without a relationship with a man, but equally valid.

This is very true. Excellent Women by Barbara Pym is a very good example of this sort of life led by single women who were single through lack of men rather than choice.