Anyone here who has opt oit having men in their lives?

[YouAreNotBatman]

I was reading about South Korean radfems who don’t date, have sex, marry or have children with men.

They sounded really cool.

It made me wonder if there are other women/feminist who have made similar choice?

@Adelishious
…and condescending, just like I said.
Funny hiw sometimes you can just sense a person, even from just a little bit of writing.

Children with single parents are worse of because of the associated poverty and other barriers. Not due to being in a single parent household alone. The poverty is mainly caused by the miserable levels of child support paid by the absent parent.

Being in a relationship is not beneficial in many ways for women. It benefits the men they are in a relationship with, instead.

The idea that having a family is the only way to bring "genuine purpose" to life is just bonkers. So many examples of people, women and men, who don't have children but have lives full of genuine purpose.

I'd use the word meaning rather than purpose.

Well, you did use the word "purpose"...

And my point remains exactly the same is you want to swap "purpose" for "meaning".

Me. At this stage I don't want any close relationships with straight men, either friendships or romantic, and I doubt very much that it will change.

I am happy to interact with men in work-type or practical situations (happy to have a male GP) but keep it polite and distant as I have lost all my trust in men.

I had a sort of moment of clarity a couple of months ago when I looked back on my life and realised that I had, in one way or another, been abused by men all my life: it started with a violent and critical father, inappropriate touching and harassment by male classmates as a teen, continued with poor adult relationships where I had to do all the work and never got anything back beyond being seen as a potential sex doll, plus the usual unwanted verbal harassment from strangers. Recently this sorry tale culminated in a so-called male friend , who I had known for 4 years, assaulting me after we started dating. That was the last straw. I thought ''I am done''.

I have met some decent men as colleagues and through hobbies in the past and whose company I enjoyed in these settings. I have no doubt that good men do exist but I personally never met a single one who behaved decently in close relationships so for me the risk is simply too high and the rewards are few.

I'd also add there are several factors relating to the negative outcomes of children from single families. I don't want this to be taken as there something wrong with it however. There are many, many women who do fantastic jobs of bringing their kids up alone and many whose kids succeed further than those from two parent households. Some really do make the most out of a bad situation, that is, I don't think there will be any women that have ever set out with the intention of being a single parent, and I don't know how anyone can downplay the benefit of having both parents present, although this obviously isn't the best way forward for everyone.

I think it’s unlikely I’ll ever date again, I’m extremely closed off emotionally, I don’t really trust anyone. I’m rarely attracted to anyone (male or female) and the chances of a person I like also being attracted to me are slim. I do get lonely, but I’ve never wanted a husband and children, so I don’t feel like I missed out on that 🤷🏻‍♂️

I think men will often now have too high standards and all the decent men will have their standards set so high its demoralising for those women who don't feel they meet that standard to be continually getting stuck with less than mediocre men. I think men and women often set there standards too high so women, who are just normal, a bit overweight, a bit lazy, and a bit selfish (we're human after all) will expect a man who looks after himself, who earns a good wage, who does all the chores and is outwardly selfless to her wants and needs and vice versa for men also.

I think you don't half talk a load of old tosh, Adelishious.

Look at the information available into outcomes for single parent families from charities such as Gingerbread, for example. Eg

"research shows that family structure in itself has little effect on children’s cognitive and emotional outcomes once other factors such as parental education are taken into account (ii).This pattern is confirmed by more recent analysis of the Millenium Cohort Study, focusing on health, cognitive and behavioural outcomes at ages 5, 7 and 11 (iii)"

www.gingerbread.org.uk/what-we-do/media-centre/single-parents-facts-figures/

As for all the guff about men and women setting standards too high... well that's just utterly unevidenced word salad.

I don't believe it is. Assuming that one sees themselves as an average woman, why would you expect to bag more than an average man.

I don't want this to be a thread that sounds like it puts single parents down as I have every respect for them, but I won't just pretend facts aren't facts by cherry picking from a charity website for single parents. More help should be given especially based on the following stats;

90% of homeless and runaway children are from single parent homes. [US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census]
71% of pregnant teenagers lack a father. [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services press release, Friday, March 26, 1999]

63% of youth suicides are from single parent homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from single parent homes – 32 times the average.
85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from single parent homes – 20 times the average.
(Center for Disease Control)
80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average.
(Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

@Adelishious but you haven't controlled for the other correlating factors that other posters have tried to explain to you. Also, don't your stats merely underline the general uselessness of men as parents vs women? Just because you're not with the mother of the child doesn't mean you cant be a parent. Far far fewer women have little to zero contact with their children than men?

I have been a single parent for 17 years since ds was 5 months. I have met many single parents over the years the vast majority of whom are educated intelligent and hardworking. Positive role models.

I imagine these statistics are from the fully dragged up end of the spectrum. Deprived backgrounds sorry education poor housing etc. None of the women friends that I know have had these outcomes. These statistics must be manipulated so as not to offend the patriarchy.

That said there are a great deal of feckless and feral absent fathers around and the CMS does nothing to address this.

@Adelishious you said I don't think there will be any women that have ever set out with the intention of being a single parent

I know 2 women who have each done exactly that. And they and their children are thriving.

and I don't know how anyone can downplay the benefit of having both parents present, although this obviously isn't the best way forward for everyone.

The benefits of having two good, loving, capable parents are manifold. The detriments of having two disengaged, neglectful or just generally incapable parents are equally numerous.

@Battista Im sorry, I just think you have to be downright evil if this is your intention from the outset. That is to intend to deliberately create a child with the sole intention if keeping a father from his child, not to mention his wider family and grandparents and robbing their child of even the opportunity to grow up with a father. It's a shame we couldn't imprison women who would intend for this outcome it's utterly shameful!

Thats a bit of a generalisation there but I think you are conflating a few things:

You say women who are overweight want men who look after themselves

But what I see on threads countless times, when women say they want men who will look after themselves what they mean is:

Men who actually clean their teeth, shower regularly, don't leave wee everywhere, don't leave dirty pants/clothes lying around etc etc

You know what, despite being overweight I still expect my DH to do all of the above, because I do all of the above.

Also as an aside I am overweight due in part to hormonal issues caused by a congenital abnormality and in part due to years of steroids due to the congenital condition. I am on a very strict low calorie diet that just succeeds in stopping me from putting more weight on which on steroids is horrible.

That doesn't suddenly give my DH free rein to stuff his face full of crap and stop exercising, because both of those things make him cranky and grumpy and harder to live with (which we know from every time he has had a few weeks of eating complete crap and not swimming). So I manage my medical condition carefully to have the least impact on us and he manages his diet and exercise to have the least impact on us.

As for women who are lazy, have you read the threads on here? Women are overwhelmingly left with the majority of the housework, the majority of the childcare, the majority of the mental load etc. Its fairly rare that the women are the lazy half of the relationship. So when they want their DH to do 'all the chores', which I have never seen, what is actually happening is that they want their DH to do their half of the chores. Which again seems reasonable.

Are you actually a woman, and have you been on MN long? Because your opinion of the average woman seems pretty skewed. As far as I can see the average woman wants a man who is clean, tidy, pulls his weight and doesn't treat her like shit, and even that apparently is setting the bar too high going by the majority of threads about crappy partners on here.

Or, you know, they could use a sperm donor...

Indeed they could, and in my eyes would be the only situation in which it would be reasonable to plan single parenthood.

I think most of the shitty partner threads would have equally bad mirror arguments to make were they to post their grievances on a board.

I do the majority of the housework, which is reasonable as DH works more hours and earns more money. Its not unreasonable of him therefore to expect me to cook, clean and give childcare. I'd expect most women woukd choose to do the most childcare anyway. Who doesn't appreciate as much time as possible to spend raising their children. Fucks sake, I see that as a luxury!

@Adelishious I think you're a bit quick to jump to conclusions, and possibly a bit naive about the sheer scope of negative impacts that have been inflicted on many children by their fathers. Including when their mothers, who were genuinely trying to do the right and best thing for their kids, thought that the desirability of maintaining contact trumped the risks from the fathers' abusive behaviours.

A lot of men only show their abusive tendencies after their partners become pregnant. What do you suggest the mother does there? Would it be pure evil of them to remove themselves and their unborn child from the abusive man?

FWIW, the women I know did use sperm donors. But there are plenty of others who have bravely extricated themselves from an abusive situation while pregnant, with a very clear intention of keeping as far away from the baby's father as possible, and I salute them.

I have often thought I wish I was lesbian 😂 I'm married but marriage has been up and down (in fairness, partly because I had undiagnosed ADHD and am also perimenopausal - a lethal combo!) If my marriage ended I would never marry again. I think DH is one of a miniscule number of humans on this earth I could tolerate sharing a house with.

I would still have sex with a few lovers if they were worth the effort, I might have a few male friends (I enjoy the company of some men) but I would not see myself as missing out on anything relationship-wise.

Same here.

I have a nice family, but my dad and brothers are all alpha males. They are very hard work. My FIL is a pathetic knob. My DH had good traits but also causes a lot of upset too. I have sons who I view through rose tinted glasses. In the past I dated men who I let treat me badly.

The other day, a man got very aggressive at work, and it made me realise that they are out there, everywhere.

I’m at the point where I have no room for anymore men in my life. One of our relatives brought her new BF to meet us. He’s a knob and I’m not engaging with him.

So, no. I don’t want another man if I get divorced or widowed. I won’t need a man. I would have enough money to survive and have an ok life and I’ve had my DC. Men are inherently selfish IMO. I don’t mind male friends, but I’m never being someone’s housekeeper again.

I wish I had 3 lovely sisters and that we all went on A Place in the Sun after our DC had flown the nest and we all clubbed together to buy a place in the Med.

I honestly do not wish I lived with a man after 3 husbands and ds's dad. I am 58 and although I still have my 17 yr old ds at home I relish the simplicity the peace and quiet and the me time.

I do enjoy men as friends though if platonic but find being very fussy works for me.

You may not label yourself as a feminist but you believe in feminism. Which is defined as "the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

I'm widowed and, having spent a large part of my adult life married, I realise it suits me to be single and have no intention of looking for a partner. The men in my life are my sons.