Is the world actually fair on men.

[Bella3456]

A very interesting one here and I'm intrigued to hear peoples thoughts. This is to do with abuse. A very long time ago I had social services involved (they are long gone now) me and partner had a physical altercation (lots more to it but will leave it at that) because of having a child social services got involved and I explained that it was both of us (hes long gone by the way) and instantly they were telling me how terrible he was.....but not how terrible I was i found it really strange. However I have a 6 year old boy and I must admit if he hit a woman I'd go absolutely ballistic and march him straight to therapy. When I defended my ex partner again saying it too was my fault no one believed me. I honestly could do no wrong and I just found the whole thing really odd. It does turn out that he ended up being incredibly emotionally and physically abusive in the end and social services said I was only 'reacting to my surroundings' which I actually believe to be true. I also believe that men being violent towards women can cause women a lot more damage because biologically they are much stronger. However if a woman was repeatedly attacking my son let's say when he's older for example constantly punching him and he hits her back i would be RAGING. But why is this? I do feel like its because men are naturally stronger so its not a 'fair fight' but also I feel like almost everyone is quick to not blame a woman and blame it all on the man. Interesting one to debate. Also want to stress I believe violence is wrong....no matter man or woman. But personally I believe man on woman violence is worse because the woman is at so much more risk due to how much stronger men are (normally). What's everyone's thoughts?

All men benefit from men holding the majority of positions of power in the world. So yes, all men.

I knew a man who was being physically abused by his female partner. I was very worried for him. I was worried about what it said about his self-esteem and mental health that he didn't walk away (he wasn't trapped by children or finances.) I was worried his mental health was going to deteriorate further because of his abusive partner. But I wasn't worried he was going to be murdered. For a woman in the same situation being abused in the same way, I'd have been afraid for her life. I think this is the important thing to remember about domestic abuse. Lives are at stake.

And even with lower levels of abuse, the implicit threat of extreme violence can be used by men to make their partners afraid. Female abusers of men don't have that implicit threat - like a gun in their back pocket, even if the gun's never fired - to use as a tool of control. Men know she's not going to kill him.

And I don't think you're right about people not blaming the woman. You should read some of the threads on here about what women who have been abused are dealing with in the family courts.

@AdamRyan

The majority of people who are in jail are men Why do people go to jail?

The majority of people who are victims of violent crime are men
Who perpetrates the violent crime?

Why do people go to jail? - There are all sorts of reasons, usually they have worked through the various interventions and they haven't worked. 'No fixed abode' is another one, especially for remands. Threat, harm, & risk is another.

Who perpetrates the violent crime? - yes i agree, the majority of violent crime is by males. As i said before, if you extrapolate the dynamic, then the top percentage of violent people will be male. But that does nothing for me as a victim.

If i were to walk down a street there is a 70% chance that any violent act will be aimed at me as a male - yet society doesn't seem to be interested in that statistic or do anything to try and stop it.

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

All men benefit from men holding the majority of positions of power in the world. So yes, all men.

Its society that benefits - not just men

Does Amazon only trade with men or only trades products aimed at men?

Does Elon musk only develop new technologies for the benefit of men?

Why this obsession with "not all men", as if you don't understand what is meant by the use of the word "men" in that sentence.

The problem is that we're talking about a tiny percentage of men who run everything. Presumably, you are a normal person who is seen how men interact with other men, and you will be well aware that men constantly screw over other men.

In my case, I have suffered immensely because of female supervisors I have worked under in the workplace. But that's not to imply "women bad, men good", because I have also met plenty of truly awful and disgusting men.

Again, people only care about their closest friends and immediate families. Other people don't care when something bad happens to you. It's the sad truth.

Wow this was completely different than what I expected from the title. I was all ready to write that the world can be unfair to BAME men and working class men.

But when it comes to domestic violence the world is definitely not unfair to men at all. Men always have the upper hand in all domestic situations because they are bigger, stronger and more aggressive. It’s not that they can do more damage, it’s that they actually and commonly do more damage full stop.

But when it comes to domestic violence the world is definitely not unfair to men at all. Men always have the upper hand in all domestic situations because they are bigger, stronger and more aggressive. It’s not that they can do more damage, it’s that they actually and commonly do more damage full stop.

What about the workplace?

Can't punch anyone there, so doesn't matter how big you are in the workplace.

@Felix125 You have missed the point entirely unsurprisingly. Society is shaped and controlled by those who have the most power, whether that be political or financial. Those people look out for their own, shape policy to suit themselves, shape culture to suit themselves. Almost all those people are men, which is why society is structured to prioritise and suit men and their lives and their concerns. I do appreciate it is difficult for the privileged, entitled and dull of wit to comprehend their advantages.

Those people look out for their own, shape policy to suit themselves, shape culture to suit themselves.

Yeah, which is why most men get screwed over, because men hate all other men.

Almost all those people are men, which is why society is structured to prioritise and suit men and their lives and their concerns.

Who do men look after?

Their families
Their closest friends

No one else matters. That's why you see men dumping rubbish on other people's land and not caring, or laughing when they watch a video of someone getting hit by a car.

You sound like someone who has never spoken to a man in her life.

@EmpressCixi

Wow this was completely different than what I expected from the title. I was all ready to write that the world can be unfair to BAME men and working class men.

But when it comes to domestic violence the world is definitely not unfair to men at all. Men always have the upper hand in all domestic situations because they are bigger, stronger and more aggressive. It’s not that they can do more damage, it’s that they actually and commonly do more damage full stop.

It depends on what perspective of DV you look at

I agree that the vast majority of physical violence will show the perpetrator to be male.

But from my experience of other domestic incidents - such as criminal damage, harassment, breach of orders, thefts etc etc the differences are not as stark.

@greasyshoes

But when it comes to domestic violence the world is definitely not unfair to men at all. Men always have the upper hand in all domestic situations because they are bigger, stronger and more aggressive. It’s not that they can do more damage, it’s that they actually and commonly do more damage full stop.

What about the workplace?

Can't punch anyone there, so doesn't matter how big you are in the workplace.

The thread is about domestic violence, everything else is not really relevant to the thread. Happy to talk about workplace sexism on a different thread.

[quote Ohsugarhoneyicetea]@Felix125 You have missed the point entirely unsurprisingly. Society is shaped and controlled by those who have the most power, whether that be political or financial. Those people look out for their own, shape policy to suit themselves, shape culture to suit themselves. Almost all those people are men, which is why society is structured to prioritise and suit men and their lives and their concerns. I do appreciate it is difficult for the privileged, entitled and dull of wit to comprehend their advantages.[/quote]
Does this take into consideration countries which have been led by women presidents/prime minsters?
France, Germany, UK, New Zealand, Pakistan, Canada, Australia etc etc

Or CEO's of big companies:
General Motors, Citigroup, Walgreens, UPS etc etc

Society is shaped by people who do well - not just men, not just women. If you are successful and occupy the top 0.1% in your society, then the chances are you will do well in your chosen field as in the groups above.

But if you think these positions are easy to occupy and they should be open to anyone, then your miles off. If you think the likes of Gail Boudreaux just sits in her mansion all day watching TV, then you have no idea what pressures & strains these people are under and how many hours a week they work.

And they do it to benefit their business/country - because that's what that society wants. And in turn it benefits that society as a whole, not just one element of it.

2000 years of patriarchy beg to differ. The very few women who make it to the top do so under patriarchy and with all focus on fulfilling their duties to it, as that is the only way they ascend - they do not represent the interests of women. In fact the vast majority of these women do not have even have children, unlike most male leaders. The UK is one of the best countries in the world for women and in its history (see how patriarchy is even fused into our language) of prime ministers since 1721, just 2 have been women, both in the last 50 years. Men change society to benefit themselves. The only advances women have had we made for ourselves. They came at great cost and from grass roots movements like the suffragettes. Power concedes nothing without demand.

"During the first quarter of 2021, 41 women will lead Fortune 500 companies. That’s just 8.2 percent, but an improvement from the 33 companies in 2019 and 24 in 2018. Going back 20 years, there were just two companies on the list that were run by women, according to Fortune."

8.2% - and that's a record - whoop de doo. Structural inequality makes it virtually impossible for women to move into these positions.

@Felix125 you're demonstrating the behaviour we see often, where a small percentage of women achieving positions of power and influence within a patriarchal society is held up as sufficient and evidence that women are not disadvantaged. You see this behaviour in many places, like in the classroom where girls talking for much much less than 50% of the time is perceived by the boys as dominating the debate. And many other examples.

www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/leadership-and-political-participation/facts-and-figures

www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2020/11/23/women-in-business-the-battle-for-power-vs-influence/?sh=190536fd2dc7

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

2000 years of patriarchy beg to differ. The very few women who make it to the top do so under patriarchy and with all focus on fulfilling their duties to it, as that is the only way they ascend - they do not represent the interests of women. In fact the vast majority of these women do not have even have children, unlike most male leaders. The UK is one of the best countries in the world for women and in its history (see how patriarchy is even fused into our language) of prime ministers since 1721, just 2 have been women, both in the last 50 years. Men change society to benefit themselves. The only advances women have had we made for ourselves. They came at great cost and from grass roots movements like the suffragettes. Power concedes nothing without demand.

Rosalind Brewer - married with 2 children Mary Barra - married with 2 children Gail Boudreaux - married with 2 children Jane Fraser - married with 2 children Safra Catz - married 2 children

How are men changing society to benefit themselves exactly?

And how exactly has the patriarchy 'allowed' these women to get to be the CEO?
I would suggest they have achieved the position themselves through their own hard work, sacrifices and diligence - and they will be the best person for the job.

[quote RoseslnTheHospital]@Felix125 you're demonstrating the behaviour we see often, where a small percentage of women achieving positions of power and influence within a patriarchal society is held up as sufficient and evidence that women are not disadvantaged. You see this behaviour in many places, like in the classroom where girls talking for much much less than 50% of the time is perceived by the boys as dominating the debate. And many other examples.

www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/leadership-and-political-participation/facts-and-figures

www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2020/11/23/women-in-business-the-battle-for-power-vs-influence/?sh=190536fd2dc7[/quote]
I could argue that you are using a tiny percentage of hyper successful men, who have achieved positions of power, as being reflective of the current society

Whereas the vast vast majority of men simply do not fit in that category.

And there are loads of societal disadvantages for men

You've found 5 people out of 500 and you think its some kind of gotcha?Women are more than 50% of the worlds population, and you think 1% is reasonable representation in positions of power? And there are no structural reasons for this gross unfairness. I have much better things to do than educate idiot MRAs on how the world works, crawl back to your reddit echo chamber with all the other ridiculous males.

There are societal disadvantages for the lazy and stupid, which is indeed a category the vast majority of men do fall into. In fact I would say a sense of entitlement is mens greatest disadvantage, which is why women are slowly gaining ground despite the structural inequalities and discrimination we face daily.

"I could argue that you are using a tiny percentage of hyper successful men, who have achieved positions of power, as being reflective of the current society"

You could, but you'd be wrong. Because the imbalance isn't just at the very top, for just FTSE 100 companies.

I was in an abusive relationship her 5ft 11 blonde glamorous to the outside world she was perfect, behind closed doors emotionally abusive and physically although rare, got strangled against door tried to poke my eye out, kicked me. I did nothing although I was bubbling.

Lots of men suffer the same but never admit it.

No, it wasn't out of anything - it was just a list of 'some' women who are the current CEO's of big companies.

In you past post you suggested that they will probably not have any children - well these beg to differ.

And there will be various reasons why the proportion of women in a CEO role is low in comparison to men.

One could be personal choice - if you think being a CEO is easy & desirable - your miles off. Its not a role i could do or indeed want to do. These people work 80+ hours every week and simply don't stop working, answer calls at 3 in the morning, drop everything at a minutes notice because you have 10 competitors just waiting to take you out in a second.

If you think that this is just because men want to keep the patriarchy going and are actively keeping women out of 'top jobs' despite the possible cost of the business - then you are way out.

@RoseslnTheHospital

"I could argue that you are using a tiny percentage of hyper successful men, who have achieved positions of power, as being reflective of the current society"

You could, but you'd be wrong. Because the imbalance isn't just at the very top, for just FTSE 100 companies.

Even if every company in the top 100 FTSE has a male CEO

That's 100 out of 33 million - that is a tiny percentage

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

There are societal disadvantages for the lazy and stupid, which is indeed a category the vast majority of men do fall into. In fact I would say a sense of entitlement is mens greatest disadvantage, which is why women are slowly gaining ground despite the structural inequalities and discrimination we face daily.

I agree.

Males do less well at school than females - and there are more women at university than men.

The majority of people who are homeless or unemployed are men

I wouldn't quite have used the terms 'lazy and stupid' as you put it - but society is doing nothing to help these. We don't have any national campaigns to help boys achieve a greater education at school or campaigns to specifically help unemployed men

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

All men benefit from men holding the majority of positions of power in the world. So yes, all men.

This makes no sense at all. The only men who benefit from men in power are the men in power.