better role model than Elsa...

[bytheby]

Hi, I haven't watched lots of films with my 4 year old but can anyone recommend films (and books but we have less of a gap there) with a female lead that isn't ridiculously beautiful.

Ideally a character that loves to read!

I was excited about Encanto but rather than wanting to be the lead (Mirabel?) she wants to be the more conventionally beautiful sister Isabella!

I am sure it is just a phase and I am not overly worried but would like to stick her in front of some things that are a bit less princessy as she is more concerned with appearances than I would like.

I know that Elsa etc does have some good features it is just my DD's pre-occupation with beauty that is making me want to make sure there are some more normal/realistic looking people in the mix too.

Or should I just 'let it go?'

Thanks everyone.

Bluey is the only prog she watches. I'm a fan even though it makes me feel inadequate as I'm not as fun as Bluey's parents!

Re Isabella in Encanto - I know she is unhappy but that story arc certainly goes over 4 year old's head. All she sees is someone beautiful who is the most admired and makes flowers appear!

Excited to watch Moana and the rest!

Toy Story 2? Jessie is pretty but not at all in the princess mould.

@Outwiththenorm

Good suggestions! I’m similarly struggling to find films for 3-4 year olds where I don’t have to explain that the main male character was originally ‘naughty’ (an arsehole) but by the end of the film is nice It’s so rare for the female characters to make that transformation (maybe Lilo excepted) and I don’t want my DC thinking that all arsehole men are really nice underneath.

THIS. Honestly, the stuff I watched in the 90s - the men are such dickheads. I would not consider the Beast to be a good choice for a long term partnership, for example. He was such a twat that someone turned him into a beast FFS. That is really all you need to know.

The bloke from Tangled also has major personality defects. Anyone can be nice for a honeymoon period, but make no mistake, this man is a cocklodger in waiting.

Astrid in How to Train your Dragon is skinny, unkempt fringe, wears skills spikes and armour and doesn't take kindly to comments on her looks

Honestly Judy from Zootropolis - she goes for what she wants - to be a police officer - she is kind and funny but also kick ass. Great female role model

Brave is mine and DD's personal favourite. It's also so old, it made a real difference and impact. Probably why I love it so much.

Moana

Raya and the last dragon

Ugly dolls

Inside out . Sadness is all chubby and nerdy looking,but without her things would get ruined.

Coraline once she's a bit older

Rumble (this one is new)

Zootopia

Maya the bee

The Tinkerbell movies,some of them are really good.

Flora and Ulyses (once she is a bit older)

Sing has a good range of different female characters.

@Birdybirdbirdy - I'm a huge Ghibli fan, but not sure I'd recommend Princess Monanoke for a 4 yo! It's pretty dark although maybe some of the topic would go over a 4yos head. Spirited Away I think would depend on the child - the plot must sound super un-child friendly, but my two - who are usually sensitive - coped much better with the protogonists parents being turned into pigs and then having to live in a bathhouse for spirits than i expected ....

@Allthegoodnamesweretakenalread

Sing has a good range of different female characters.

Yes agree. Love Ash!

I know a PP said they thought a 4 yo would be too young for Brave, but our DD has loved it since she was about 3.5.

She's nearly 5 now and her absolute fave characters are Moana, Rapunzel and Elsa. Isabella is also her favourite in Encanto but I believe its more that she likes her dress the best!

She's recently got into the Wreck it Ralph films and Vanellope is a cute character. The second one also has the Disney princesses in some funny scenes.

I think Belle is a good role model also.

Why do people keep saying Belle?
What's the lesson? Love a guy until he turns good? Yeah..no.

My daughter loved Matilda when she was about 4.

My Neighbour Totoro is great and ‘grows’ with them - they see more nuance in it as they get older.

I really don't think Belle is great.

When Garston pressures her in her house, he literally towers over her, pushing her into the door and knocking over her furniture. Very physically aggressive. She tries to placate him by saying "you're too good for me."

I don't have a daughter but 100% I would be using this to say NO MAN should ever make you feel like this and your response should be to tell them no, get out.

@doadeer

I really don't think Belle is great.

When Garston pressures her in her house, he literally towers over her, pushing her into the door and knocking over her furniture. Very physically aggressive. She tries to placate him by saying "you're too good for me."

I don't have a daughter but 100% I would be using this to say NO MAN should ever make you feel like this and your response should be to tell them no, get out.

Agreed...

The beast also treats her terribly and then she loves him and he transforms into the prince, terrible message

@TheNumberfaker

My daughter loved Matilda when she was about 4.

I was going to say Matilda but she sides with the surrendered woman (Miss Honey) and opposes Ms Trunchbull who is pretty much the textbook hardcore feminist.

Another vote for Sing and now Sing 2.

There are plenty of female characters but they're all animals, and whilst they're vaguely pretty it's bot the same IMO as a princess.

Sing 2 got my 8 year old to love the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, and my 4 year old to love Coldplay, and them both to love Elton John, so it's not all bad!

[quote Isthisjustnormal]@Birdybirdbirdy - I'm a huge Ghibli fan, but not sure I'd recommend Princess Monanoke for a 4 yo! It's pretty dark although maybe some of the topic would go over a 4yos head. Spirited Away I think would depend on the child - the plot must sound super un-child friendly, but my two - who are usually sensitive - coped much better with the protogonists parents being turned into pigs and then having to live in a bathhouse for spirits than i expected ....[/quote]
Agreed Princess Mononoke is unsuitable for a child that age. It's a 12+ with plenty of blood and gore.

Totoro and Ponyo would be better for a wee 4 year old!

Howls moving castle.

@Ruinedwalks

Tangled, (apart from the fact she marries a previous criminal!)

Actually that film is my favourite.

The mother is excellent!

As PP have said, Studio Ghibli is your friend.

Strong girls, leading the plots, making their way with their own decisions. It's not all based on boys being the point.

Also, bear with me here, My Little Pony. It's basically a matriarchal feminist realm where the male ponies are only baddies or the muscle (and they don't talk very much if they're the muscle). Ponies can be bookish, silly, brave, strong, whatever, and 'girl' isn't a personality like in so many cartoons. Friendship is important and everyone has a role. I bloody love the Ponies.

@doadeer

I really don't think Belle is great.

When Garston pressures her in her house, he literally towers over her, pushing her into the door and knocking over her furniture. Very physically aggressive. She tries to placate him by saying "you're too good for me."

I don't have a daughter but 100% I would be using this to say NO MAN should ever make you feel like this and your response should be to tell them no, get out.

Doesn’t she actually say “Gaston, I just don’t deserve you?” And then promptly pushes him out of the door in to a puddle of mud. She also responds to Gaston saying “it’s not right for a woman to read,” by saying “Gaston, you’re positively primeval.” He’s so dumb he takes it as a compliment. In the original full film I think she also teaches Beast to read, I guess that was to show the difference between the Beast and Gaston and how they expected women to behave in that era. I mean I agree about the whole Stockholm syndrome aspect being pretty bad 🤣 but Belle is still a pretty inspiring princess in lots of ways.

Love Moana, favourite part is when the sea parts…fantastic

Lots of great suggestions above, my DDs love:

Shrek (we’ve watched it 50 million times and even went to see it at the theatre last weekend 😄)

Toy Story (all 4 of the films!!) Jessie and Bo Peep

Wreck It Ralph - Vanellope is a cool role model and not conventionally pretty or princessy and Sgt Calhoun is a strong female character who leads everyone and doesn’t take any crap!

Raya and the last dragon (the outfit for that is really cool as well if your little one likes dressing up)

Luca - Julia loves science and reading and teaches Luca lots about the world. I also like that her parents are not together but it’s not a big deal? Moving away from pushing the normal nuclear set up.

We’ve also been watching Chip and Dale the old Rescue Rangers series on Disney+ the girl chipmunk in that is the leader really, she’s a scientist/inventor and explains everything to the others and it might be a nice dose of nostalgia for you if you were an 80s/90s kid 😂

As a side note about the Frozen films, my girls (2 and 4) love the classic Disney Princess movies, and they love Frozen 1 and 2. Elsa is an amazing role model, and I genuinely believe it’s thanks to Jennifer Lee being the director - first female director for Disney and weren’t they the most successful animated films of all time?! A lot of people judge them without even watching them - not aiming that at OP, btw, but people assume it’s the same old Disney sexism when they’ve really made a lot of progress.

Yes to My Little Pony! It's awesome. I especially like the episode where they have the election and it's all about election related corruption, and the one where they end up somewhere that's supposed to be North Korea. The male characters are totally incidental.

In a year or two Spirit Riding Free is good as well- 3 girls and their horses in the American old west- again the male characters are incidental, the girls drive the action.

Also on netflix- Ada Twist Scientist is fab, and my 5yo also likes Dino Dana a lot (which I think might be Amazon). Cbeebies is not bad but most of the cartoons still have male characters outnumber female, and males more likely to be in the lead role, unfortunately (Octonauts I'm looking at you).