The cult of motherhood - feminism's unfinished business

[TellMeItsPossible]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/may/18/parent-trap-why-the-cult-of-the-perfect-mother-has-to-end?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1639042839

The pressure mothers are put under, compared to even 50 years ago, sort of blows my mind.

What can we do, as feminists, to improve the lot of mothers? I agree that we need to work on this. Mothering can't be viewed through a patriarchal lense, shoehorned into existing structures, and mothers can't be continually treated as a resource provider for a capitalist world (see also: panic over dropping birth rates).

And also, although we agreed to sharing care in principle, in reality it didn't happen that often. One kid would be sick and the Mum totally exhausted and would cry off - and I can tell you having to cope with two projectile poos at once is a lot worse than one. It happened to me. How isolated mothers of twins cope I don't know.

This contempt is reflected in the way many medical people, social workers, etc. treat women. I suspect many pregnant women and new mothers are terrified of seeking treatment for PND, lest they get their babies taken off them. I know I was one of them.

I wasn’t terrified, there just was no help. The GP referred me to an online course, apparently specifically defined for PND. It recommended more sleep, and a routine. Unfortunately DD hadn’t done the course so didn’t know I needed more sleep.
And the HV I called in tears basically begging for support when DD was a few months old and I was suicidal told me to “call back in a few days once the phase has passed”. I wanted to say “firstly, what use are you if you are only interested once the problem has gone away? And secondly, this isn’t a phase that will pass, in a few days I may be dead.” But I just hung up instead.
There is so much talk about awareness of mental health problems, such a stress on it whenever you talked to midwives, HVs etc, but if you ever tried to actually get any help, there was nothing. I’ve found the same in my current pregnancy as I’m struggling again, I’ve just given up asking.

Good point Dozer makes too - reciprocal childcare relies on you both having the same number of kids because it would seem rather odd for an exhausted Mum of one to agree to take on two under 3 for the sake of some alone time from her one baby.

The fathers getting use it or lose it pat leave would be more to the point.Where are the men in this?

There's a huge amount of anxiety now about always responding instantly to your baby/never letting them cry which is partly where the showering difficulty comes from.

Yes, this! Parents didn’t think twice about letting babies cry for 10 minutes if needed, now it’s seen as incredibly damaging to let them grizzle for even a minute. I used to ensure baby was fed, changed and comfortable, put them in the Moses basket (or rocker if older) and get in the shower. I would leave the door open so I could see them, but I would take that ten minutes to shower & not be rushed.

So much talk on here of ‘Velcro babies’ who need constant holding and co-sleeping being seen as the answer to everything. It’s not really meeting a need, it just creates one.

I wonder if it's viewed as emasculating (by men) for parents to share maternity/paternity leave.

I don't think it's remotely true, but I'm trying to understand why more men don't take up the offer.

A lot of employers offering additional maternity pay don’t pay equivalent paternity.

(Over and above the statutory pay)

@Ameanstreakamilewide

I wonder if it's viewed as emasculating (by men) for parents to share maternity/paternity leave.

I don't think it's remotely true, but I'm trying to understand why more men don't take up the offer.

Money.

We tried. DH earns far more than me.
My mat leave was 6 months full pay, 3 months half, 3 months stat. But it had to be in that order - DH couldn’t take the last 6 months and elect to have that as the ‘full pay’ part. Given it would be impractical for him to take the first 6 months due to breastfeeding and my recovery, we had to give up on the idea.

Yes, I found there was basically no help to be had at all with DD2, with DD1 (who is now 11) we had a surestart centre where we lived which was an absolute lifeline and they had midwives there on certain days which was great as you could get advice from them in person.

With DD2 there were a few baby groups a drive away, set up mostly by church groups or other Mums - nothing official. The only breastfeeding support was at the local hospital (quite a drive and impossible for the first 6 weeks - arguably the most crucial time - as I had a c section), and even that was volunteer led. Official support there was none.

Meh. Can’t identify with much of this. But then I have little truck with mum guilt. Most mothers I know are just getting on with it and are too busy to navel gaze or ponder on their supposed maternal failings.

As for PTA meetings being predominantly attended by women, in my experience it’s because those attended wanted to be sociable and connect with others in a way that many men don’t want or need.

As for the swopping childcare, it probably doesn’t work that frequently as I suspect most of don’t want to have to deal with other people’s children. It never took off in my circle and I think most of us were happier paying someone rather than be obliged to return the favour.

This is why it has to be take it or lose it pat leave, and no option to transfer, because if there is an option to transfer, it will almost always be the woman it gets transferred to. For good individual reasons I'm sure.

For DD1, there was no option for shared parental leave (yes, it's only been around for a while, people forget this, not long enough for a lot of families to benefit) nevertheless we did consider him doing some of the first year as he wanted to but financially couldn't make it work.

We earned the same amount at that point, but once I'd taken the leave that only I was entitled to (11 years ago) then obviously his pay went up and mine went down (quite drastically as I got made redundant after mat leave and did a stint as a SAHM) so obviously when DD2 came along there was no way he could take the pat leave he was then entitled to.

And also, interesting point, ,he was not actually entitled to pat leave beyond 2 weeks given I wasn't working (was a SAHM) at the time.

Even for the 6 weeks (and beyond actually as c section scar didn't heal properly) that I couldn't actually pick the baby up.

That was an interesting time.

@Ameanstreakamilewide

I wonder if it's viewed as emasculating (by men) for parents to share maternity/paternity leave.

I don't think it's remotely true, but I'm trying to understand why more men don't take up the offer.

Money. With DD, we could afford to live on DH’s salary plus statutory mat pay, but couldn’t have afforded the other way round. This pregnancy, I get 5 months full pay so we’d be mad to give that up as DH wouldn’t get the same.

@Ameanstreakamilewide

I wonder if it's viewed as emasculating (by men) for parents to share maternity/paternity leave.

I don't think it's remotely true, but I'm trying to understand why more men don't take up the offer.

We'd have liked to but my work offered a great package for anyone taking maternity or shared parental leave with five months on full pay. Several colleagues (almost all same sex couples) have taken it up but their partner worked in same sector so had similar package.

DH's work offered the statutory minimum to all so it cost us around £1000 just for him to take two weeks paternity leave. There's no way we could have afforded to split longer leave between us even though it's what we wanted, he'd have been better at it than me too!

The only people I know who've used shared parental leave are same sex couples too.

Shared parental leave still exists in a system which is constantly sending the message that the woman alone is responsible for children.

‘Most mothers I know are just getting on with it and are too busy to navel gaze or ponder on their supposed maternal failings’

With attitudes like that perhaps the mothers you know don’t share their thoughts with you!

Don't forget too that a lot of 'family' support for new mums in the past relied on grandmothers not working. They'd be local, available, possibly not much age difference between youngest child and oldest grandchild, if my predecessors were anything to go by.

Now, either we're having babies later, which tends to mean older grandparents (my DD has 3 dead GPs and one who was already 70+ when she was born) or grandparents under 65 are still working and therefore much less available. And much less energy when they are available

I know so many families who could have made shared parental leave work with the first child, but because it wasn't a thing then, the woman took all the leave, her career suffered and so when they had subsequent children when shared parental leave was a thing, they couldn't afford to lose the man's salary.

Yep, the relying on grandparents is interesting. I know a few families who do this, it's always the women doing the unpaid childcare. Some of whom really don't seem to enjoy it. One in particular used to come to baby groups with me when DD2 was little and she really didn't seem very well. Her daughter had a career which she loved but wasn't high earning but she couldn't have had without her Mum doing all the care. I realise why people do this individually, and that it's difficult, but in terms of feminism it's not really progress is it? To shift the care onto older women?

Wasn't there some realisation recently about the social care the state would have to do if women were going to work longer? So much unpaid caring is done by women. Not just childcare, elder care too and care for disabilities.

Why don't women share the burden of childcare between themselves more?

After really struggling mentally following the birth of my first child I have offered this or even just some company/cup of tea and a chance to vent to everyone close to me in the same position. No one takes me up on it I presume due to needing to feel like they have it all under control or appear perfect all of the time. I know I wouldn’t have taken someone else up on it either at the time to be honest.

I honesty couldn't imagine leaving my DC with friends and I never had the energy to take another child on. The only people I trusted were my mum and sister, they were a huge help. Then we moved miles away. We now live in an area where most of our neighbours are in their 80s so it's myself and DH offering them support as needed. Has negative experiences with children's centres as it was so competitive and judgemental i.e. why can't you manage to exclusively breastfeed, speech development comparisons (little Johnny is talking fully at 12 months, why can't Amelia say anything, is she autistic ?). Constant talk about snapping back into shape wtc. I found it too stressful so I stopped going.

@Teacupsandtrainers

Why don't women share the burden of childcare between themselves more?

After really struggling mentally following the birth of my first child I have offered this or even just some company/cup of tea and a chance to vent to everyone close to me in the same position. No one takes me up on it I presume due to needing to feel like they have it all under control or appear perfect all of the time. I know I wouldn’t have taken someone else up on it either at the time to be honest.

I don't think it's a need to be seen as perfect, more that to do this you need to really, really trust the person and with people moving around so much for work etc these days often the people you know in the same situation when your baby is little are people you've only just met.

I don't like the assumption of the article that people advocating breastfeeding, for example, are trying to create impossible standards of perfection rather than maybe, in some cases, just trying to shift the conversation away from what is the patriarchal norm. And actually make life easier and cheaper for women.

And the norm is still bottle feeding in the UK. Largely pushed to maximise profits for the formula companies and so the woman can go back to work.

I think feminism's real unfinished business is the fact that a lot of the time (not on here but among academic feminists) motherhood is seen as somehow lesser than a career, and not valued, in the UK certainly. I've lived in another country where motherhood was considered a valuable societal contribution and very important to child wellbeing and safeguarding (and it was supported by the state accordingly - also all childcare workers had to have a degree and were paid about the national median salary, unlike the low pay here).

@Dozer

‘Most mothers I know are just getting on with it and are too busy to navel gaze or ponder on their supposed maternal failings’

With attitudes like that perhaps the mothers you know don’t share their thoughts with you!

Not sure what that’s supposed to imply. I have a large circle of friends, predominantly working mothers. We have often talked about this very topic and not one of us is beating ourselves up over our choices. Not sure why that’s so hard to take in.