To be really surprised by this? Married surname

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So DP and I recently decided to get married. It'll be registry office and nice dinner - no big wedding, not our style. I won't be changing my name - for a number of reasons, but obviously don't care what other people do with their names. And totally understand people with children all wanting to have the same surname.

But what has really surprised me is the amount of women I know - women my age, who have asked me if DP and I have 'had the discussion about what's happening with my name' and 'will he not be annoyed that you're not taking his name' and 'omg was he disappointed you are not taking his name'. My DP does not give a toss tbh!

These are women who proclaim to be feminists. I thought part of that was not caring about what other women did with their surnames? It's so weird to me. I'm early 30s. Has anyone else found this? Honestly so surprised

Thanks @Puppyseahorse - how annoying that everyone's assuming you have changed. I'm a long term and obvious feminist and my friends have clearly noticed as some said things like "stupid question but I assume you're not changing your name?"

Remember getting a shock when I read The Handmaid's Tale as a teenager and was appalled by the women in it being called Offred (of Fred), Ofglen etc after their "owners". Then realised that calling a woman who was once e.g. Lucy Jones "Mrs Wilson" or even worse "Mrs James Wilson" isn't really that different in terms of a naming practice (except the women have been trained to expect and want it).

I didn’t change my name when I married 15 years ago, which seemed to upset a lot of friends and family (in part for professional reasons as well as feminist ones!). Every year I assume they’ve got used to it, and every year I look at the Christmas cards arriving addressed to Mr and Mrs Husband’sName…

I think it's just a deeply ingrained habit for most people to think of it this way. I'm not surprised they do.

I have just received two Christmas cards addressed to Mr&Mrs D. World. My husband is Mr D World. I am Mrs World, or indeed Mrs A World. There are no Ds in my name.

I changed my name, but that was because I didn't want to have a different name to our children. (Our names are not possible to double barrel). I do remember a shop keeper when we were first married telling DH that he was very lucky I was willing to do so as it wasn't the done thing anymore (20 years ago).

I do ask friends what their plans are but my close social circle has a mixture of double barreled, non name changers or people who have changed their names. This includes a male who changed his name for his first marriage. (Second marriage his wife took his name).

To be honest, I find comments on here more judgmental than any conversation I have had in RL. I certainly won't be disparaging to anyone who is curious, but use it more as an opportunity to discuss. My name is my name and I can do with it what I want.

I always find it interesting that a fair portion of the already small minority who keep their names don't give their names to their children. Like their feminism can only stretch so far.

Or people change their name apparently because they want the same surname as their child. Given the divorce /separation rates and the statistical liklihood that the woman will end up with majority care of any children, its most logical for the children to take the mother's name.

This is a tradition that seems to be really holding fast in the UK for some reason, compared to other Western countries. I live in North America and amongst women I know I'd say it's 50-50ish, and the higher up the socioeconomic ladder you go the more likely women are to keep their names. Although still perfectly acceptable to be working class and not change your name. I find it odd that name changes are still so entrenched in the UK because in many respects the current feminist movement is so much more robust there than in other countries. I wonder if it is tied up with the class system and more formality in society in general (for instance most women here would use Ms, but it's almost a moot point because we almost never, ever use titles).

I find it interesting that I often hear women talk with pride about keeping their names (me included), but rarely the other way around. Women who change their names tend to minimise the decision- ‘it’s just a name’, ‘I didn’t like my name anyway’, ‘mine was just my father’s name’, etc. Is it really such a passive decision?

I doubt it. I think that there must be an element of pride involved to do something so major with your identity- a feeling of ‘I’m married, I’m an adult, somebody chose me’- in the same way that women show off engagement rings, for instance. But it’s rare to hear someone say this out loud.

Most married women I know changed their names - I'm 33, so a fair spate of weddings in the last 5 years, and I'd say 85% changed their name. I'm surprised posters on here see it as notably less prevalent these days as that hasn't been my experience - I wonder why the difference?

I got endless questions when I didn't - people were really surprised and in turn I was quite surprised by the questions even though I knew I was in the minority amongst those I know. Even a few of my far more vocally feminist friends asked whether DH 'minded' or not.

I don't mind at all being referred to as Mrs DhName by people that don't know us, but it bothers me when people who know me and know I haven't changed my name still do it.

@Puppyseahorse

I find it interesting that I often hear women talk with pride about keeping their names (me included), but rarely the other way around. Women who change their names tend to minimise the decision- ‘it’s just a name’, ‘I didn’t like my name anyway’, ‘mine was just my father’s name’, etc. Is it really such a passive decision?

I doubt it. I think that there must be an element of pride involved to do something so major with your identity- a feeling of ‘I’m married, I’m an adult, somebody chose me’- in the same way that women show off engagement rings, for instance. But it’s rare to hear someone say this out loud.

That's a good point, actually! I think maybe it's a slight embarrassment at being pleased to be socially, visibly married? Like it's showing off, or a bit silly to care? A friend of mine tripped over herself to play it down with "Oh it just seemed easier cos we want children, I know it's not very modern" - suggesting either she wasn't keen, or she was and was embarrassed to say. I did point out she was free to do what she wanted and it was nobody else's business as long as she was happy and she seemed relieved I didn't give her a feminist lecture (I didn't change my name so I think she was expecting me to judge it).

I have to admit, when I briefly considered whether or not to change my name, I felt embarrassed that I was so charmed by the idea of being visibly being a unit in having a shared surname. Like I was being a bit soppy or overly romantic and that was silly.

And it's hard to unpick, because it's not silly to be happy about your relationship or want to show that off (obnoxious, maybe 🤣). And humans are tribal by nature, we like being able to identify ourselves as part of something, even if it's a 2 person tribe. BUT then, matching surnames for married people is not universal, it has patriarchal roots (in cultures where women take the man's name), and how do you tease out what is or isn't affected by those cultural norms?

I really wanted DH and I to smash our names together and make a ridiculous hybrid name but unfortunately the one way it works sounds like a medication for a rash so we had to veto that one...!

@teezletangler

This is a tradition that seems to be really holding fast in the UK for some reason, compared to other Western countries. I live in North America and amongst women I know I'd say it's 50-50ish, and the higher up the socioeconomic ladder you go the more likely women are to keep their names. Although still perfectly acceptable to be working class and not change your name. I find it odd that name changes are still so entrenched in the UK because in many respects the current feminist movement is so much more robust there than in other countries. I wonder if it is tied up with the class system and more formality in society in general (for instance most women here would use Ms, but it's almost a moot point because we almost never, ever use titles).

I think that's because the colonies in N America were greatly influenced by the UK tradition of changing a name upon marriage. When my own family immigrated from Norway, some of them dropped their traditional way of naming and took on the English naming tradition, but some hated it and it was easier for later generations to toss it. Also, in the US, loads of women have Latin backgrounds where you don't take your husband's name.

I'm with you, OP.

In a moment of poor self-control a few years ago, I expressed surprise that a relative was changing her name on marriage. It was obvious that she and everyone else in earshot was shocked by my rudeness. I immediately regretted what I had said, and I apologised. I made it clear that of course it's nobody's business but hers what name she uses.

But nobody has ever apologised to me for expressing surprise that I didn't change my name.

I don't express the shock any more when a woman changes her name on marriage and her spouse doesn't, but I still feel it. I've learned to hide it better. Those who feel shock when a woman doesn't change her name need to do the same!

@Level75 i kept my name, but didn’t inflict it on my children (its a monstrosity with hardly any vowels and a ton of k, s, t - it never ever gets spelled correctly leading to all kinds of issues).
my husband’s name is bog standard (think Smith) and free of any identity as its so common.
if i had a name i would inflict on anybody, we would have double barrelled.

Women now have the choice of what to do with their name. That's the most important thing surely?

Men have the same choice. It's interesting that they so rarely exercise it.

Lots of women are weird about it. My mother in law refuses to acknowledge my surname because I didn't change it. For a couple of years she addressed cards to My first name - husband's surname, but since dh told her to stop she now just refuses to write any surname on things sent to me, or writes "The birthday girl ". It infuriates me. Brother-in-law similarly was asked not to use dh's surname for me, and now writes a different vague approximation of my surname on my birthday card each year. It's bloody rude, and incredibly pass-agg.

When I got married this was of excessive interest to seemingly everyone.

Friends, workmates, both families etc.

Women and men.

After congrats, what date, where, etc.

Are you going to change your name?

And tbh if you are known feminist it feels like a somewhat loaded question.

Certainly when I said, once decided. With the women and a few men. I said this. They said. Why did you decide that and not a different way? In a slightly challenging way.

In usual female (loads of people full stop?) way I quickly and but even realising looking back. Started saying this and reason is xyz blah blah blah to get defence in first...

I think it is somewhat loaded as with the Mrs Ms miss thing as it provides something for people to make some assumptions about what 'sort' of woman you are. And all options will be met with silent mild approval/ disapproval depending on the person who is (subconscious/ semi-consciously categorising).

Men just carry on being them as nothing to change so nothing to be read into anything.

I know one man who took his wife surname on marriage.

It's all tied up in patriarchal systems and women being often judged on sodding women.

@scarpa

Most married women I know changed their names - I'm 33, so a fair spate of weddings in the last 5 years, and I'd say 85% changed their name. I'm surprised posters on here see it as notably less prevalent these days as that hasn't been my experience - I wonder why the difference?

I got endless questions when I didn't - people were really surprised and in turn I was quite surprised by the questions even though I knew I was in the minority amongst those I know. Even a few of my far more vocally feminist friends asked whether DH 'minded' or not.

I don't mind at all being referred to as Mrs DhName by people that don't know us, but it bothers me when people who know me and know I haven't changed my name still do it.

Disappointing, I think. Someone way up the thread said this was a personal issue and I think it's the exact opposite: it's a political issue, a feminist issue. If the reasons that women give for changing their names were the real ones - never liked the name, didn't like my dad, wanted family to all have the same name - and no sexism was involved, then just as many men men would change their names. It hardly ever happens.

I think a lot of women assume that one day they will change their name because it's the the convention, and so they don't think of their names as permanent. They view their name objectively as something you can like or dislike, and I think that most men simply don't do that.

Grumpy I totally get where you're coming from but I don't agree for a combination of a set of reasons to do with RL I suppose.

1. Yes it's a feminist issue. One that's well known, same as ms, Mrs, Mr. To do with history, signalling available or taken of course we were property. Grim. Men just stay Mr, almost always keep surname. Independent person own name that's that etc.

1. With this feminist issue though. Note in some countries the law has changed around this stuff. Applied to all. Out of individual hands, have to follow law.

Here, as you note. It's an individual decision. With a massive load of stuff sitting around it. Stuff which surrounds the individual woman.

1. The real life stuff that goes with this, to greater or lesser extent with individual women.

• General societal judgements that exist. Not all people but a lot. Consciously or subconsciously.

Take name standard. UNLESS woman is known/ thought to be a bit of a feminist. Or has a job where network important. Or even a job which is 'good'. Then will get quizzed by interested people, often in a mildly combative way. From friends, colleagues etc. Oh? I'm surprised. Why? What about..? Etc. Ditto not thought of as feminist or 'that type' and don't take name. Oh? I didn't know you were that 'type'. Why? Etc. PITA. And it's vv annoying, boring. And reasons personal, Bob from accounts you see around. Wants to know. Has questions. Etc.

Tbc

1. Parents, in-laws. Plenty have views. Some strong. Surnames have for plenty people things attached to them. Family history/tree etc. See not taking as rejection of family. She's a feminist? A career woman? Rejecting tradition/ normal to make some kind of point? Conversely. We brought up to not bend to patriarchy. I'm a ms own name. Back in X when it was unusual and derided. What a kick in the teeth...

These sort of ructions are common. When getting married, bad feelings with 1 or both sets parents? Not what anyone needs.

1. Children. Different surnames. Usually children have dad surname. Different to mum. For most women that obv feels fine. For some they just don't want that. Personal. No right or wrong. Individual feelings.

1. That then leads onto more questions and is v sensitive. You see threads on here chat etc about surnames and children. Women getting really upset feeling their decision being criticised. Whatever it was/ is!

1. Double barrell, new surname. Issues, opinions etc.

1. Then the OH might have views. Arguments, upset etc both sides. Her name she should do what want. In practice.. Wedding booked, bad feeling. Not going to cancel wedding over it... Totally crappy. What means for marriage if a loggerheads already. Backing down, whichever side, what mean about what marriage like?

Sorry long.

IMO individual women have a host of reasons for what do.

The whole issue is to do with tradition history patriarchy. That women were property and title said available/ or not to other men to marry (own), surname said which man. Used to be Mrs John Smith as well. Some still use that type of address on Xmas cards. So many threads.

The idea with Ms was that was it. Mr/ Ms. What happened? Now choice of 3 which all have baggage. And FFS. Loads of people think Ms means divorced! Like ownership is so important 3rd option must relate to that.

Surnames same sort of stuff.

Women get judged about so many things. And it's a societal norm.

Change needs to be universal. As in other countries.

Individual women choices so incredibly loaded. Threads on here. Women so angry/ upset. They get long, nasty, personal. Even amongst women this stuff is personal and often sensitive.

And individual women keeping surname changes... Nothing in the scheme of things.

Sorry went on but I hate these topics. Divisive, often judgemental, women get defensive. When in reality. We should be saying. Up to you. And trying to fight the societal attitudes that make this stuff so loaded.

. Then the OH might have views. Arguments, upset etc both sides. Her name she should do what want. In practice.. Wedding booked, bad feeling. Not going to cancel wedding over it... Totally crappy.

It really, really bothers me how more often than not its woman that backs down.

I've been with my partner for many years and we're not married (no kids, we manage our own finances etc.). This year I received a Christmas card from a family member addressed to Mr & Mrs My Name. You should have seen the look on my partner's face when he picked it up off the doormat!

I'm not sure what point my family member was trying to make but, having been mistakenly called "Mrs Hisname" far too many times, it was nice to see the tables turned. Suffice to say, neither of us will be changing our names.