To be really surprised by this? Married surname

[Hereagainnewlogin]

So DP and I recently decided to get married. It'll be registry office and nice dinner - no big wedding, not our style. I won't be changing my name - for a number of reasons, but obviously don't care what other people do with their names. And totally understand people with children all wanting to have the same surname.

But what has really surprised me is the amount of women I know - women my age, who have asked me if DP and I have 'had the discussion about what's happening with my name' and 'will he not be annoyed that you're not taking his name' and 'omg was he disappointed you are not taking his name'. My DP does not give a toss tbh!

These are women who proclaim to be feminists. I thought part of that was not caring about what other women did with their surnames? It's so weird to me. I'm early 30s. Has anyone else found this? Honestly so surprised

I got married at 40 and did not change my name. I just couldn't associate my name as being Mrs M when it had always been Miss T.

When Christmas cards first used to arrive to Mr and Mrs M I thought they were for his parents!

I can't excited by this and still consider myself a feminist in most matters. My birth name was my father's - my surname now is my husband's. I am still me. We got married after kids who had his name with mine as a middle name. When we got married I wanted us to all have the same name and he wasn't fussed either way. It wasn't about being his property or giving up my identity - it was just that I wanted us to all have the same name and double barrelling two long unusual names sounded awful.

...though I get the rage when his family send me cards addressed to 'Mrs his first name Surname'

@ManorPiggy

I can't excited by this and still consider myself a feminist in most matters. My birth name was my father's - my surname now is my husband's. I am still me. We got married after kids who had his name with mine as a middle name. When we got married I wanted us to all have the same name and he wasn't fussed either way. It wasn't about being his property or giving up my identity - it was just that I wanted us to all have the same name and double barrelling two long unusual names sounded awful.

By that logic your surname is actually your father-in- law's name or perhaps your grandfather-in- law's name.

I find what you've just said completely bizarre. Basically women never have their own names- they're only temporarily on loan from their father or their father in law.

As for the "all have the same surname" how does that work if a woman divorces and remarries?

I've also been surprised at how much people expect a 'do' and things like bridesmaids etc.
I got married in the morning and didn't have any bridesmaids or an evening do. Had quite a few comments about that too!

@FoxgloveSummers

Most of the men I know would be disappointed (but would understand) if their partner didn’t take their name.

Well some people do feel disappointed when their incredible privileges are taken away, however ridiculous. Imagine assuming you'll get to name another adult after yourself - and thinking that's a thing you can sulk about if the other adult doesn't want to.

Obviously I know most relationships aren't abusive but whenever I see a husband has killed his wife, and she shared his name, I just think fuck me and we wonder why some husbands are so entitled. She gave up her name when they married because that's a societal expectation. Perhaps I'm not surprised some men think they own their wives.

To be clear I’m not saying they should or have a right to be disappointed. Just that it’s a fact that many will, and given mine and future DHs experiences with our choice of name I’m not surprised

@KimikosNightmare that's exactly it. I was not the first with my maiden name. It was my fathers and his fathers before him and so on way back to wherever it came from. I didn't get to pick my first or middle names either.

I'll be honest, I was 27 when I got married and didn't give changing my name much thought. I didn't like having different names and we couldn't double barrel so I took his. 10 years on its my name. I have more friends now who've only ever known me as Twizbe Married-Name. When I see anything with Twizbe Maidenname on it seems weird now.

The big thing here though is choice. Women now have the choice of what to do with their name. That's the most important thing surely?

I do think it’s a shame on MN that we often scorn women’s choice to change to their husbands name, even if their reasons don’t make sense or aren’t right for you, it’s their choice.
There’s no ‘right’ or ‘easy’ answer, each option has its downsides for some people.
And I think it’s very dismissive of social norms and expectations set from a young age. Of course women feel less attached to their name, they have ‘known’ all their life that they would probably change it, even if only subconsciously. Even the language we use ‘taking your husbands name’ your mum ‘took your dads name’ your ‘maiden name’ changing back to your maiden name after a divorce ‘mr’ naturally coming first in ‘mr and Mrs’ all these things imply that names belong to men and women just borrow them for periods of time. Our female role models typically changed their names whilst our husbands male role models did not change theirs. So, many women are bound to feel less attachment to their name and men are bound to feel more attachment to theirs.

[quote Twizbe]@KimikosNightmare that's exactly it. I was not the first with my maiden name. It was my fathers and his fathers before him and so on way back to wherever it came from. I didn't get to pick my first or middle names either.

I'll be honest, I was 27 when I got married and didn't give changing my name much thought. I didn't like having different names and we couldn't double barrel so I took his. 10 years on its my name. I have more friends now who've only ever known me as Twizbe Married-Name. When I see anything with Twizbe Maidenname on it seems weird now.

The big thing here though is choice. Women now have the choice of what to do with their name. That's the most important thing surely? [/quote]
You've missed my point. It is your name. Your husband's name is his name.

@Sleepyhungryfattyanddoc

I do think it’s a shame on MN that we often scorn women’s choice to change to their husbands name, even if their reasons don’t make sense or aren’t right for you, it’s their choice. There’s no ‘right’ or ‘easy’ answer, each option has its downsides for some people. And I think it’s very dismissive of social norms and expectations set from a young age. Of course women feel less attached to their name, they have ‘known’ all their life that they would probably change it, even if only subconsciously. Even the language we use ‘taking your husbands name’ your mum ‘took your dads name’ your ‘maiden name’ changing back to your maiden name after a divorce ‘mr’ naturally coming first in ‘mr and Mrs’ all these things imply that names belong to men and women just borrow them for periods of time. Our female role models typically changed their names whilst our husbands male role models did not change theirs. So, many women are bound to feel less attachment to their name and men are bound to feel more attachment to theirs.

I'm sorry but that sounds a right load of tosh.

My name is my name- why on earth would I not be attached to it? It even meets the "ooh this name is sooo much nicer" test. My name is far and away the nicer of the two.

@KimikosNightmare but that’s you And your name. And that’s great for you.
I just feel like any time a woman says she’s not that bothered about her name/is NC with her dad anyway / likes his name better immediately she’s scorned/mocked/disbelieved because a man would never say that. And they probably wouldn’t, I’m just saying (as someone who kept their own birth name) that I can see why some women feel that way and I don’t think we should be rude about it if that’s the decision she makes.

OMG, the tedious, ‘I might as well take my husband’s name, otherwise I’m keeping my father’s’ > 🙄 x a zillion.

If you keep your name (or your father’s if you don’t think it’s actually yours), and then pass it on to your kid’s, then it’s their Mum’s name.

Change has to start somewhere.

On a personal, individual level it is none of my business what other women or men do, and I don’t judge individuals.

On a political / societal level it is a feminist issue and will be until :
Men get asked the same question
As many men change their names as women
That ‘to have the same surname as any children’ means the woman’s as often as the man’s
That men are happy to to change their name because of bad associations or difficult spelling as often as women are

Until then, it remains a patriarchal tradition overall, whatever our personal preferences may be.

OMG, the tedious, ‘I might as well take my husband’s name, otherwise I’m keeping my father’s

While men own their own name even though it is also their father’s (or mother’s)

Your name is YOUR name once it is on your birth certificate. Or are women who say this seeing a name as the branding or label of the person who bestows it?? To be peeled off and replaced with the next man’s name when you remarry? Patriarchy.

@GutsInMay

OMG, the tedious, ‘I might as well take my husband’s name, otherwise I’m keeping my father’s

While men own their own name even though it is also their father’s (or mother’s)

Your name is YOUR name once it is on your birth certificate. Or are women who say this seeing a name as the branding or label of the person who bestows it?? To be peeled off and replaced with the next man’s name when you remarry? Patriarchy.

Yup. The whole demeaning ‘maiden’ name as ‘starter name’ hypothesis.

Tootired; I got married 32 years ago and had no issue with keeping my name!
How did every gov dept make it impossible?

Why do some women call their birth name their 'maiden' name?
Does maiden mean virgin?
Surely it's an outdated term (like, from the Middle ages)?

@Corbally

Gosh, I don’t think it’s anything like ‘church or register office’, more like ‘So, are you planning to perpetuate a sexist, patriarchal tradition or not?’

Most people I know acknowledge that it's not the name change thing but the marriage thing which is a sexist, patriarchal tradition. If someone felt that strongly about it then I would advise not getting married TBH.

I think the feeling among my social circle is that historically it's a deeply flawed institution and we can either choose to engage with it in its modern form, or reject it due to its heritage. Some choose to marry, some don't. Some choose to name change, some don't. And whichever route you pick is fine, as long as it's right for you.

I’d say marriage is a tradition with a very sexist history, which has changed due to law changes and is now equal on either side (ie I have the same rights over my husband’s life Liberty and stuff as he has over mine, with a few stupid exception like titles.)

The name change thing remains mainly one sided and sexist.

That’s the difference.

@ManorPiggy

I can't excited by this and still consider myself a feminist in most matters. My birth name was my father's - my surname now is my husband's. I am still me. We got married after kids who had his name with mine as a middle name. When we got married I wanted us to all have the same name and he wasn't fussed either way. It wasn't about being his property or giving up my identity - it was just that I wanted us to all have the same name and double barrelling two long unusual names sounded awful.

I don't get this logic at all. Your husband's surname is his fathers. So you have his fathers surname rather than your fathers surname.

My birth name was my father's - my surname now is my husband's.

Embarrassed for you.

'I am but a woman. Of course I don't have a name of my own.'

My birth name was my father's - my surname now is my husband's

So you have never had a name of your own? Just interchangeable surnames dependent on which man you belong to?

Not surprised! I’m the same age, recently married, nobody asks me if I’ve changed my name- they just assume I have. I have not. I find it disrespectful.

At the same time, I’ve felt a weird guilt about NOT doing it- as though I’m taking something away from DH that he would have enjoyed.

I do realise how bizarre that is, and that it’s reflective of my own ingrained sexism. He’s always said he doesn’t care.

I recently had a daughter and if she told me she wanted to change her name (she has a DB) … I wouldn’t be happy. Her name connects her to us, the people raising her, her heritage, her history- I’d feel sad if one day she chose to jettison that in favour of a partner. Family is forever, partners are often not- statistics don’t lie.

@FoxgloveSummers ‘naming another adult after yourself’- this made me LOL! Such a great way to describe it!!

Most people I know acknowledge that it's not the name change thing but the marriage thing which is a sexist, patriarchal tradition. If someone felt that strongly about it then I would advise not getting married TBH.

Historically, marriage was certainly a patriarchal institution, but I'm interested in what you view as sexist or patriarchal about it in 2021?

My marriage hasn't deprived me of any rights on gendered grounds, or given my husband any rights over me on those grounds. I don't much like the historical freight associated with the institution of marriage, admittedly, and would have had a civil partnership for preference if it had been available for straight people, when we needed to get married (visa), but in fact we got married in ten minutes with two witnesses and then promptly forgot about it.