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Feminism: sex and gender

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Late night thoughts... women changing surnames after marriage

417 replies

FatJan · 02/10/2021 00:44

Not sure if this is the right board as I'm not fully sure where I'm going with this yet! Feels vaguely right, but happy for it to be moved.

Basically, I was scrolling through social media this evening and clicked on a post from a girl I knew at school which had got lots of comments.

As I scrolled down the post, I saw a load of comments from women whose names I didn't recognise.

I thought it was a bit strange I didn't recognise/couldn't remember who they were because the post was about something that happened at the school, and they were all talking as if they'd been there.

Suddenly I realised that I did actually know all of the women - they were all girls from our year.

I hadn't realised because they've all got married and now have their husbands' surnames.

It gave me a weird and not particularly pleasant feeling.

I haven't followed these ladies' lives over the years as they weren't in my close friendship circle, but I remember them well and how they were as children and teenagers.

Something about the fact that the identities they had when they were young no longer exist (on paper anyway) and they all have their husbands' names now made me feel a bit upset, which surprised me.

I'm trying to explore that feeling and I thought writing it down/sharing it might be a good place to start.

Obviously being happily married isn't a bad thing, so I think it's more the (perceived) loss of old identity thing that has given me a jolt, probably linked to the fact that men get to keep theirs.

I think it was also related to the fact it wasn't just one woman with a new name, it was the entire friendship group. It made it seem like the 'thing' to do, and I suppose it is, although I'm not sure how I feel about that. Some of the girls were very outspoken feminist types and to see them all as wives now with their husbands' name was a bit unexpected.

To be honest, I've been very in-my-head with the Sarah and Sabina cases and the ongoing discussions around things women go through that men don't, and this might be impacting the way I responded emotionally to that particular post.

Does the above make sense at all? Has anyone noticed or felt something similar?

OP posts:
CloseYourEyesAndSee · 02/10/2021 14:35

@MrsR87

I’m quite shocked that I would be judged by some of you for taking my husband’s name.

It was something I really wanted to do because to me it signifies that we are now a team. It also signified the start of our married lives together and the journey we would go on as a partnership! I know that goes against the archaic meaning but that’s how I feel about it and that’s how our relationship works.

Yeah, sorry if it bothers you but I do Why wouldn't he change his name? Or both of you pick a new one together? Or double barrel both of them?
CloseYourEyesAndSee · 02/10/2021 14:35

@NoNotMeNoSiree

Feminism is about women's equality and with equality the freedom to make her own choices This Completely agree. Women judging other women on their choices is Hmm as well. We're either independent free thinkers of our own or we're not.
Not every choice a woman makes is a feminist choice just because it's a woman making it
MrsR87 · 02/10/2021 14:38

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

I much prefer my married name to my maiden name so it never even crossed my mind to ask him to change it.

lazylinguist · 02/10/2021 14:39

Tbh I'm surprised you needed to work out why you didn't recognise their names - whatever one's view on the matter, it's still a pretty normal thing to do.

Yes it's obviously very much part of a patriarchal system. But although I'm a feminist, I can't seem to get worked up by this one. I think maybe it's because a) nobody is making women take their husband's name and b) I never had a feeling of attachment to my own surname at all. I don't feel it (or my new surname) defined/defines me in any way. It's just a name. And it's useful that it's the same as my children's.

KimikosNightmare · 02/10/2021 14:39

We're either independent free thinkers of our own or we're not

Carrying on with the pointless tradition of giving up your name for your husband's name seems the very epitome of not being an independent free thinker.

I'd actually have more understanding if you (general you) just came out and said "I just really want to show I've bagged a man and be Mrs His Name" than the non- justifications on here.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 02/10/2021 14:40

[quote MrsR87]@CloseYourEyesAndSee

I much prefer my married name to my maiden name so it never even crossed my mind to ask him to change it.[/quote]
Yeah course you did Grin
Funny how many men have awesome surnames and women have crap ones! Women are always finding men with much better surnames so they just jump at the chance of changing it but it never happens the other way round Grin

MrsR87 · 02/10/2021 14:41

@KimikosNightmare

It was something I really wanted to do because to me it signifies that we are now a team. It also signified the start of our married lives together and the journey we would go on as a partnership!

And that could only be achieved by your changing his surname to yours? Exactly the same could have been achieved by his changing his surname to yours.

Oh and many successful partnerships use more than one name.

I never said they didn’t, just simply explaining what taking my husband’s name meant to me.

I much prefer his name to my maiden name so I wouldn’t have ever thought of asking him to change it.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 02/10/2021 14:42

@lazylinguist

Tbh I'm surprised you needed to work out why you didn't recognise their names - whatever one's view on the matter, it's still a pretty normal thing to do.

Yes it's obviously very much part of a patriarchal system. But although I'm a feminist, I can't seem to get worked up by this one. I think maybe it's because a) nobody is making women take their husband's name and b) I never had a feeling of attachment to my own surname at all. I don't feel it (or my new surname) defined/defines me in any way. It's just a name. And it's useful that it's the same as my children's.

Everyone has an attachment to their name. That's why you turn around when you hear it, or your eye is drawn to it in a list. You might not like the name but living with it for 20+ years means it is indelibly etched in your subconscious mind. Pretending that isn't the case is stupid.
KimikosNightmare · 02/10/2021 14:43

I never had a feeling of attachment to my own surname at all

This gets trotted out often as a justification. I can understand if one's surname was genuinely awful or if there aspects of one's childhood one wanted to escape from, but the idea that one's name is irrelevant seems weird. And again it's always the woman who isn't attached to her name.

lazylinguist · 02/10/2021 14:45

Why wouldn't he change his name? Or both of you pick a new one together? Or double barrel both of them?

In my case dh's is easier to spell and say. Mine was endlessly mispronounced and misspelled. Neither of us is a fan of double-barrelled names, and our particular combo would have soubded bloody silly. And why pick a random name when one of us already has a perfectly good one? He didn't have any preference for me taking his name. It creates precisely zero issues or inequality between us. So why is it a problem?

MrsR87 · 02/10/2021 14:48

@lazylinguist

Why wouldn't he change his name? Or both of you pick a new one together? Or double barrel both of them?

In my case dh's is easier to spell and say. Mine was endlessly mispronounced and misspelled. Neither of us is a fan of double-barrelled names, and our particular combo would have soubded bloody silly. And why pick a random name when one of us already has a perfectly good one? He didn't have any preference for me taking his name. It creates precisely zero issues or inequality between us. So why is it a problem?

Exactly this…except the easier to spell bit. For me my maiden name was easy for pupils to use in a joke so to be honest I was more than happy to change it!
lazylinguist · 02/10/2021 14:49

This gets trotted out often as a justification. I can understand if one's surname was genuinely awful or if there aspects of one's childhood one wanted to escape from, but the idea that one's name is irrelevant seems weird. And again it's always the woman who isn't attached to her name.

Hmm I'm not 'trotting out' anything. Maybe it is 'weird', but that is genuinely how I feel, and I had a perfectly nice childhood thanks. I don't think dh is particularly attached to his surname either though. His parents might have been a bit taken aback if he'd taken my name, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been fussed either way. If it helps, I've never been very attached to my first name either Grin.

lazylinguist · 02/10/2021 14:51

Ah - fellow teacher @MrsR87! On some days, dh, ds, dd and I are all in the same school. And all the kids know we are related because if our surnames. I guess some teachers would want to avoid that, but we all quite like it!

Ninjawannabe · 02/10/2021 15:00

I think the thing that bothers me is so many are framing it as a choice they made. A free will choice and something they wanted to do.

I dispute it is a free choice, because I don't believe that in the vast majority of cases the man would have considered changing his name.

The couple do not weigh up the pros and cons of both changing to his name vs her name vs a new name vs each keeping their own name.

They don't

Some people evaluate these as choices each with an equal chance of winning, but for the majority of (heterosexual) couples the only choices which are on the table are:
Woman changes to man's name
Woman double barrels with man's name
Each keep their own name

It's even unusual for both people to double barrel! I only discovered that recently - I naively assumed that the point of double barrelling was they both met in the middle. Nope, only the woman is expected to

So since all the logical permutations don't have equal weighting, it is not a proper choice

garlictwist · 02/10/2021 15:03

DP and I aren't married but if we ever do I've told him I'm keeping my name. It is part of my identity and I can't imagine myself with another name. I don't care if he changes his name or not or if we have different names. It's not an issue.

The OP reminded me of a time I was scrolling through Facebook and saw a post by someone I didn't recognise. I clicked on it and realised it was my own sister under her (new married) name!

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 02/10/2021 15:11

Other option... married couples should be encouraged to chose a new family name on marriage.
Genealogists would hate it though.

lazylinguist · 02/10/2021 15:12

I would not claim to have been totally uninfluenced by the fact that taking my husband's name was the social norm, rather than him taking mine. It's easier because it's what people expect. But I did think about it. And came to the conclusion that when I added my lack of attachment to my name to the positives of his being easier and the minor benefits of us both and any future children all having the same name, this was the logical choice.

I have felt a slight twinge of guilt about it occasionally, but not because I feel I chose wrongly for me. I only feel guilty when criticised by people who feel strongly that it's wrong- i.e. when other women are placing expectations on me about how to feminist properly.

MsAwesomeDragon · 02/10/2021 15:15

The only people who have ever had an opinion on me keeping my surname have been my mil (who berated me for a good hour on my wedding day for "disrespecting" her son), and my parents (who think it's a shame but "understand I have my reasons").

I find it quite jarring when someone pops up on Facebook that I don't recognise the name for, because I knew them with a different name. Most of my close friends from school still have their birth surnames though. I must have been part of a group who felt quite strongly about keeping our own identities (actually, it doesn't make sense to change your name if you are marrying another woman, or if you have made a professional name for yourself with your birth name)

Changemusthappen · 02/10/2021 15:18

Individuals can do what they like, I must admit though I am very surprised at the amount of young women who change their name and I do judge them a bit for it.

It always amazes me also how many change their name to become a team and so they have the same name as their children but then following a divorce and remarriage change their name again so that they now have a different name to their dc. How does that work? or those that don't like their name - never hear men saying this and wanting to change their name.......

I think many women are often scared to say they won't change their name and are scared to ask their partners. You often see on here how horrified the PIL were when it was announced names wouldn't be changed or the children will have the mothers name. The patricarchy is still very strong and women are brainwashed by this stuff. But then I suppose I'm not one of those women who get excited by being a 'Mrs', I just don't understand it!

catelina · 02/10/2021 15:20

A financial advisor told us a few years ago that it was a legal requirement for a woman to change her name on marriage and thought that our mortgage paperwork wouldn't be valid as I hadn't changed mine! Why she believed this I have no idea and when I put her straight she didn't seem to believe me. I was staggered.

PlanDeRaccordement · 02/10/2021 15:21

@Ninjawannabe

I think the thing that bothers me is so many are framing it as a choice they made. A free will choice and something they wanted to do.

I dispute it is a free choice, because I don't believe that in the vast majority of cases the man would have considered changing his name.

The couple do not weigh up the pros and cons of both changing to his name vs her name vs a new name vs each keeping their own name.

They don't

Some people evaluate these as choices each with an equal chance of winning, but for the majority of (heterosexual) couples the only choices which are on the table are:
Woman changes to man's name
Woman double barrels with man's name
Each keep their own name

It's even unusual for both people to double barrel! I only discovered that recently - I naively assumed that the point of double barrelling was they both met in the middle. Nope, only the woman is expected to

So since all the logical permutations don't have equal weighting, it is not a proper choice

Just because it is very rare for a man to take his wife’s name, doesn’t mean it isn’t a choice or was not considered.

So since all the logical permutations don't have equal weighting, it is not a proper choice

This is absolutely ridiculous. No choice we ever make in life has equal weighting of all the options. Not even a simple choice of which ice cream flavour do you want today?

MonsignorMirth · 02/10/2021 15:24

@KimikosNightmare

As for being "potentially young" the age for getting married is late 20s and older

What on earth are you on about?

The average age for getting married is late 20s/ early 30s. The average woman getting married isn't some some young girl who might not know any better as someone on here was trying to suggest.

So you assume everyone getting married is the average age, when you are forming the judgement being discussed? They aren't. That's not how averages work.
Mumoblue · 02/10/2021 15:30

I never married my ex (thank god) but we were together a long time and engaged for a few years. Our son has his dads name, due to a combination of things. His dad felt like it mattered a lot, I didn’t, due to having a different surname from most of my family (I’m from a blended family). Also the name just goes better with my ex’s name. It doesn’t bother me to not have the same surname as my son. I never intended to change my name.

If I ever do get married, I’m not sure what I’d do. Maybe double barrel. Maybe keep my name. I’d be open to changing it if the new surname was something cool. I don’t have a lot of attachment to my last name, but it is MY name, so I’ll decide if I change it or not.

Mommabear20 · 02/10/2021 15:57

I didn't see it as losing my identity, more creating a new one, a sequel if you will. My maiden name was me as a child & daughter, my married name is me as a wife and mother.

pinacolada5 · 02/10/2021 16:20

Kept my name and so pleased I have. It's such an odd patriarchal tradition and if I'm honest I see giving it up as quite a passive thing to do, but I don't think many women give if that much thought.

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