Late night thoughts... women changing surnames after marriage

[FatJan]

Not sure if this is the right board as I'm not fully sure where I'm going with this yet! Feels vaguely right, but happy for it to be moved.

Basically, I was scrolling through social media this evening and clicked on a post from a girl I knew at school which had got lots of comments.

As I scrolled down the post, I saw a load of comments from women whose names I didn't recognise.

I thought it was a bit strange I didn't recognise/couldn't remember who they were because the post was about something that happened at the school, and they were all talking as if they'd been there.

Suddenly I realised that I did actually know all of the women - they were all girls from our year.

I hadn't realised because they've all got married and now have their husbands' surnames.

It gave me a weird and not particularly pleasant feeling.

I haven't followed these ladies' lives over the years as they weren't in my close friendship circle, but I remember them well and how they were as children and teenagers.

Something about the fact that the identities they had when they were young no longer exist (on paper anyway) and they all have their husbands' names now made me feel a bit upset, which surprised me.

I'm trying to explore that feeling and I thought writing it down/sharing it might be a good place to start.

Obviously being happily married isn't a bad thing, so I think it's more the (perceived) loss of old identity thing that has given me a jolt, probably linked to the fact that men get to keep theirs.

I think it was also related to the fact it wasn't just one woman with a new name, it was the entire friendship group. It made it seem like the 'thing' to do, and I suppose it is, although I'm not sure how I feel about that. Some of the girls were very outspoken feminist types and to see them all as wives now with their husbands' name was a bit unexpected.

To be honest, I've been very in-my-head with the Sarah and Sabina cases and the ongoing discussions around things women go through that men don't, and this might be impacting the way I responded emotionally to that particular post.

Does the above make sense at all? Has anyone noticed or felt something similar?

I have a similar feeling to you OP. I am always surprised at how many women changed their name on marrying. Especially surprising is the number of professional women who do it, as surely it's helpful to keep the same name once you have a good reputation.

But clearly there's a really strong social pressure to take the husband's name.

I didn’t change my name. I can understand the appeal of wanting a family name but it pisses me off that it’s the woman who is expected to change.

@somethinginoffensive

I have a similar feeling to you OP. I am always surprised at how many women changed their name on marrying. Especially surprising is the number of professional women who do it, as surely it's helpful to keep the same name once you have a good reputation.

But clearly there's a really strong social pressure to take the husband's name.

Exactly this. Despite what some people want to convince themselves.

It's a very very sad tradition, and quite a shocking one actually.

I'm really surprised so many women go along without even questioning it. Bizzare.

@Carrierpigeon

I personally don’t think this is a pressing feminist issue. I don’t think most people care of you change your name.

I definitely agree that there are much more pressing feminist issues. However I met with eye rolling and pushback for keeping my name. Some people are surprisingly invested in maintaining these traditions. I was amazed that they cared at all and have no opinion on what other women choose to do.

Yeah I agree, I'm not married but I would like to get married, I was recently chatting to 4 friends and the topic of marriage came up and I mentioned that I'm not gonna take my bf's name and the reaction was 'whaaaat? Really? Why not!?' We're a group of 27 year olds btw, I've also heard some of my friends say 'if you don't take your husbands name what's the point in getting married?' ... I guess there's no point in men getting married then?

Oh also luckily my boyfriends opinion of it is 'it's your name so do what you want'

@Keke94LND

He's a keeper, congrats

I don’t think it’s anybody’s place to judge any woman’s decision. My female friends reacted very badly when I took my husband’s name but I didn’t particularly like the one I was born with and I also wanted us as a family to all have the same name. It was my choice. I don’t think it means anything whether you do or you don’t change your name after marriage.

I think there’s no denying the patriarchy does have a hand in it, as it does in virtually every ingrained social convention.

I know this won’t apply for everyone. But for me, taking my husband’s name on marriage was one of the most liberating things I ever did. Because it freed me from another man’s name - my father’s. Someone who has treated me in a patriarchal way, like a piece of property, all my life. It was incredibly liberating to get rid of my dad’s name and take the name of a man I liked and had actually chosen myself.

Historically women have been the property of either their fathers or their husbands. Changing surnames on marriage was just intended to reflect the change in ownership.

@MissChanandlerBong81

I think there’s no denying the patriarchy does have a hand in it, as it does in virtually every ingrained social convention.

I know this won’t apply for everyone. But for me, taking my husband’s name on marriage was one of the most liberating things I ever did. Because it freed me from another man’s name - my father’s. Someone who has treated me in a patriarchal way, like a piece of property, all my life. It was incredibly liberating to get rid of my dad’s name and take the name of a man I liked and had actually chosen myself.

Historically women have been the property of either their fathers or their husbands. Changing surnames on marriage was just intended to reflect the change in ownership.

You do know that you can just change your name? To whatever you want? A name you have actually chosen for yourself, not just the name your husband happened to have?

There is no legal requirement to keep the name you were registered with at birth.

I know two women who did exactly that and always thought that was extremely admirable and genuinely freeing.

@HarryHarryHarry3

I don’t think it’s anybody’s place to judge any woman’s decision. My female friends reacted very badly when I took my husband’s name but I didn’t particularly like the one I was born with and I also wanted us as a family to all have the same name. It was my choice. I don’t think it means anything whether you do or you don’t change your name after marriage.

Why do you think, if it's a free choice , that over 90 percent of British women still take their husband's name when they get married, and that (to a first approximation) zero percent of men take their wives'? journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1360780419892637

It is a highly cultural choice. I wouldn’t ever make a woman feel ‘bad’ for taking her husbands surname, I just don’t want us as women to be less than honest about the fact that it is patriarchy.

And whilst I sympathise if you’ve had a bad experience of a father, and don’t like the surname he gave you, I honestly don’t understand why you would take another man’s name instead? When you could just change your name to anything you liked, with no connotations of being ‘owned’ by anyone?

Having a family name certainly makes stuff easier with kids.

I don't get this at all. How is it easier? Why is it remotely important? I didn't take DH's name. Have I mentally scarred the poor kid? How fucking rude to assume its affects them. One of DS's middle names is my surname so it's fucking obvious on passports we are related. He knows who his mother is and is connected to both of us and our family names. My name is on DS's birth certificate and all relevant paperwork. Plenty of other countries don't have the convention of name change on marriage and everyone else having the same surname in the family. If you divorce and your ex remarries, step mothers can end up with the same surname to confuse matters so having the same surname doesn't guarantee you have parental responsibility (and schools / doctors should be checking stuff like that rather than making assumptions anyway).

Its a complete myth.

I really have never had a problem with having a different name.

At school its so common for kids to have parents with different names for various reasons.

The only time its been a pain in the arse is when the bank decided to tell me it was illegal for me not to change my name. In hindsight I should have raised a complaint over that.

And it is nice to piss off the MIL by not having her surname...

I really do wish this crap would die a death and women didn't feel obliged to change their name to fit some crappy social convention which doesn't reflect life in 2021 anyway.

I also love the fact it pissed off my MIL. FIL wasn't in the slightest bit arsed. Interestingly.

Its a complete myth.

Of course it is. I travelled to the other side of the world with DC1 when he was 4 months old and minus DH, different surnames on passports, and not an eyelid was batted.

Easier with kids on day to day stuff, school, doctors, dentists even silly things like matching up who's mums who's on the school Facebook group.

I do know a lady who have was asked travelling she was Polish but her DD had a British surname and she was asked about the relationship. Although she said she only ever got asked coming back into the UK never leaving or going into Poland.

I also know a mum who does have the same name as her DC being asked where the Dad was when they were travelling. So that clearly had nothing to do with names.

@Lockdownbear

Easier with kids on day to day stuff, school, doctors, dentists even silly things like matching up who's mums who's on the school Facebook group.

I do know a lady who have was asked travelling she was Polish but her DD had a British surname and she was asked about the relationship. Although she said she only ever got asked coming back into the UK never leaving or going into Poland.

I also know a mum who does have the same name as her DC being asked where the Dad was when they were travelling. So that clearly had nothing to do with names.

It literally makes no difference with dentists, schools or doctors. Other people's Facebook use has zero impact on me and my decisions. The travel issue is technically nothing to do with names. However it is assumed that if you share a name you are parent and child, but they will often ask for confirmation if you don't. It's no big deal, flash a picture on your phone and done. Also my ex was stopped when travelling with DS though they share a surname and I assume that's because of his nationality. It's pretty randomly applied.

My maiden name was long and forrin; my married name is long and rooted in Old English. Bothe very unusual. I've been irked more than the taking a man's name argument by the many comments, usually from nurses/teachers/Town Hall staff "ooh, that's a funny name, where did you get that from". I have usually said something like "funnily enough from my father (and for the last 30 years) from my husband". Where do you think 'funny' names come from. Potential racism, potential othering - imo.

Today I have a hospital appointment. I'll report back how many times men are called Mr and women by their first names. Overt sexism and it's shocking bearing in mind how much the NHS spends on equality.

Baffling why women see through patriarchy enough to keep their own names, but not enough to give their children their name instead of, or as well as, their father's.

I hate it.

You do know that you can just change your name? To whatever you want? A name you have actually chosen for yourself, not just the name your husband happened to have?

No, I don’t think that option occurred to me at the time that it was relevant (I got married quite a while ago now). And I suppose that’s the social aspect - it’s far more ‘usual’, and easier, for a woman to change her name on marriage than it is for her to pick a random new name and change it out of the blue.

But all I’m saying is that for me getting rid of a name I shared with a misogynistic patriarchal chauvinist who viewed me as property and sharing a name with someone I loved, and who I’d chosen, was very significant. More significant than choosing a name at random I think.

Funnily enough when my children were born my father demanded (not asked!) that we give them my maiden name as a middle name. Very typical of him - so that he’d feel they were his property. I said no.

Lots of women have difficult relationships with their fathers and I don’t think I’m alone in changing my name for this reason.

I have an unusual name.
It's an unusual name. I can bore anyone with the possible derivations if they mention it beyond the spelling.

And whilst I sympathise if you’ve had a bad experience of a father, and don’t like the surname he gave you, I honestly don’t understand why you would take another man’s name instead? When you could just change your name to anything you liked, with no connotations of being ‘owned’ by anyone?

I can only speak for myself but for me my husband’s name carries huge significance for me because I love him, because he respects me and because I chose him.

I could have chosen something else - as I say, that option didn’t occur to me at the time it was relevant. I also think it’s disingenuous to pretend that changing your name to another name you’ve chosen is exactly the same process as changing your name on marriage - I think the former would have really upset my siblings, for example. I realise that’s partly socialisation but I don’t think it’s fair to pretend they’re exactly the same.

I’m now trying to think what I would have changed my name to Not my mother’s maiden name, she despised it and had an abusive father too. I was very into emo music at the time so I dread to think what I’d have picked. Ms Chemical Romance.

@Lockdownbear

Easier with kids on day to day stuff, school, doctors, dentists even silly things like matching up who's mums who's on the school Facebook group.

I do know a lady who have was asked travelling she was Polish but her DD had a British surname and she was asked about the relationship. Although she said she only ever got asked coming back into the UK never leaving or going into Poland.

I also know a mum who does have the same name as her DC being asked where the Dad was when they were travelling. So that clearly had nothing to do with names.

You are using facebook as a reason to change your name so you can 'match up' parents and kids. Good god, get off Facebook and stop living your life through it. You need to. I swear far too many people have a really bad addiction there which is extremely bloody unhealthy.

Do you know how I know which children, match with which parents? I talk to them or I met them at events. Or I god forbid - ask them - if I'm not sure.

It does not make any difference doing anything with regards to school, doctors and dentists BECAUSE I'M LISTED AS NEXT OF FUCKING KIN and when you register you have provide details of birth etc anyway. Even if you have the same surname these places should be aware whether you are the parent not the step parent and whether you have full parental responibility as basic level safeguarding.

Amazingly, I've never had problems travelling - as I say, DS has my surname as a middle name so its blindingly obvious we are related (and neither do others on this thread) and strangely enough, its easy to make sure it is never going to be a problem by making sure you have the relevant documents if you are that worried.

Seriously, why is it that you don't actually believe someone saying 'this has never made a blind bit of difference to my life and the whole idea that it does is a pile of rot'.

If the best arguement you can come up with is 'silly things like Facebook' I bloody despair.

I kept my surname. However, our children have DH's name - neither of us were bothered either way which one they had, so we went with his. It really doesn't matter, we're still a family.

Not read the thread but can guess the content

• I wanted to change mine and feminism is about choice
• I never liked mine because it was my stepdad's
• Mine was hard to pronounce
• I preferred DH's
• Mine was hard to spell
• It just didn't worry me (some comment about global warming)
• DH wanted me to and I love him
• I wanted the same surname as my DCs (no explanation of why the DCs would take DHs name).

So predictable.

I agree with you OP.