Late night thoughts... women changing surnames after marriage

[FatJan]

Not sure if this is the right board as I'm not fully sure where I'm going with this yet! Feels vaguely right, but happy for it to be moved.

Basically, I was scrolling through social media this evening and clicked on a post from a girl I knew at school which had got lots of comments.

As I scrolled down the post, I saw a load of comments from women whose names I didn't recognise.

I thought it was a bit strange I didn't recognise/couldn't remember who they were because the post was about something that happened at the school, and they were all talking as if they'd been there.

Suddenly I realised that I did actually know all of the women - they were all girls from our year.

I hadn't realised because they've all got married and now have their husbands' surnames.

It gave me a weird and not particularly pleasant feeling.

I haven't followed these ladies' lives over the years as they weren't in my close friendship circle, but I remember them well and how they were as children and teenagers.

Something about the fact that the identities they had when they were young no longer exist (on paper anyway) and they all have their husbands' names now made me feel a bit upset, which surprised me.

I'm trying to explore that feeling and I thought writing it down/sharing it might be a good place to start.

Obviously being happily married isn't a bad thing, so I think it's more the (perceived) loss of old identity thing that has given me a jolt, probably linked to the fact that men get to keep theirs.

I think it was also related to the fact it wasn't just one woman with a new name, it was the entire friendship group. It made it seem like the 'thing' to do, and I suppose it is, although I'm not sure how I feel about that. Some of the girls were very outspoken feminist types and to see them all as wives now with their husbands' name was a bit unexpected.

To be honest, I've been very in-my-head with the Sarah and Sabina cases and the ongoing discussions around things women go through that men don't, and this might be impacting the way I responded emotionally to that particular post.

Does the above make sense at all? Has anyone noticed or felt something similar?

Those are also obvious signs in certain contexts, but not visible every time I am addressed by title and surname.

@RosesAndHellebores

I think the obvious signs are having a career, one's own money and and independence in decision making. By the time I married I trusted my judgement and didn't feel the need to demonstrate to others anything for a statement show.

Also, my surname upon marriage wasn't mine. It was my father's and before that his father's. Therefore my married surname is the name I independently chose to take upon marriage.

Also, my surname upon marriage wasn't mine. It was my father's and before that his father's. Therefore my married surname is the name I independently chose to take upon marriage

What utter nonsense. Your name is your name.

@KimikosNightmare in your opinion. I beg to differ. I did not chose my maiden name it was given to me. I actively chose upon marriage to change it to my husband's name. I had a choice and exercised it.

@EerilyDisembodied

I also like the fact that being a married Ms OwnSurname hopefully is a visible sign that I consider myself to be a feminist. Being Mrs DHsurname doesn't make anyone less of a feminist but it isn't as obvious.

That calls to mind another objection I've frequently heard. 'Your husband's name is your legal surname'.

It truly isn't, and the cynic in me can't help but suspect disingenuousness. Changing your name is a hassle and a faff (albeit you can pretty much call yourself whatever you like). You'd have to order new bank cards, new passports, new business cards. You might have a different name to the one on all your degree certificates. I feel a sense of pride in these (not in being a 'Mrs'; anyone can do it), and would have felt disinclined to distance myself from this. It was also my dear, late mum's name before it was ever mine, and I felt a desire to maintain this link with her.

I never changed my family name to someone else's, but the real reason for this wasn't to make any kind of feminist statement. It's because it simply never occurred to me to do so.

The default, legal position is that your name is your name unless YOU actively change it.

My qualification certificates rarely see the light of day. I have only had two jobs since 2004 and both times my employer needed my marriage certificate for pension purposes so there was no issue linking my married name to my former name. In fact my highest and professional qualification is in my married name because it was my dh who had the belief in me and supported me to do it.

If we are agreeing to the patriarchy (name changing being an example) then who else is going to break it down? And the more worrying thing is that through changing name some women cannot even see how this plays into the patriarchy - how can we ever change things? You have to acknowledge an issue before it changes - and men aren't going to stop it because it benefits them.

Yes 100%

For me it is the denial that I find quite worrying, with women defending name change as completely their choice without any pressure from society. Unless we recognise this, we are still contributing to a patriarchy where men hold the power, with all the dark side that brings such as domestic abuse, pay disparity. Names are incredibly important - otherwise why change them at all? If it’s no big deal, why does a woman go through all the rigmarole of changing her name?

I have my original name and my children have my name too. Why do children always have the fathers name? It is usually the mother who does the lions share of bringing them up in the day to day sense, the mother who carries them, who gives up work for the longest. It is the mother who usually is the main carer after divorce. It makes far less practical sense for children to have the fathers name.

@NCBlossom

If we are agreeing to the patriarchy (name changing being an example) then who else is going to break it down? And the more worrying thing is that through changing name some women cannot even see how this plays into the patriarchy - how can we ever change things? You have to acknowledge an issue before it changes - and men aren't going to stop it because it benefits them.

Yes 100%

For me it is the denial that I find quite worrying, with women defending name change as completely their choice without any pressure from society. Unless we recognise this, we are still contributing to a patriarchy where men hold the power, with all the dark side that brings such as domestic abuse, pay disparity. Names are incredibly important - otherwise why change them at all? If it’s no big deal, why does a woman go through all the rigmarole of changing her name?

I have my original name and my children have my name too. Why do children always have the fathers name? It is usually the mother who does the lions share of bringing them up in the day to day sense, the mother who carries them, who gives up work for the longest. It is the mother who usually is the main carer after divorce. It makes far less practical sense for children to have the fathers name.

There is pressure. That's undeniable.

I never recognised this, though, until I committed the cardinal sin of doing what men have always done: marrying, and not assuming my own identity must be relinquished into the bargain. I'd assumed at the time - possibly because of the environment I work in - that it was a common enough practice in this day and age (I can well understand why my mother's and grandmother's generations didn't do it; granted, back then it would have been very unusual).

But I've had some unbelievably rude comments. And the post upthread is bang-on: it's nearly always other women trying to put me back in my box. Husband doesn't give a flying one: he's proud of me. He knows I'm his wife; just as I know my child is mine (our deal was that girls would take my name and boys his, but that either way, the other's family name would form part of their names. So DC's third given name is the other's surname: they can choose to double-barrel it later should they so wish).

I changed my name when I got married, I’ve not lost my identity, I’m still the same person, I’m still me.

I wanted us to have the same name so that our children ,when we had them would have the same name. Our family name.

But why must the ”family name” be the man’s?

Names are incredibly important - otherwise why change them at all?

Agreed. A family name is precisely that: it's your shared history. A name is the means by which you identify yourself. How, then, can this represent anything other than your identity?

The family name doesn't have to be the man's. In 1934 my grandfather took my grandmother's name. I don't think anyone blinked an eye.

In different settings I use my mum, my dad or my husband's surname it does feel weird it's true! It is a identity change. I use 2 surnames online so people know who I am for that reason. I agree it's weird to have to remember new surnames especially of the friends who got married twice.

I am also glad that my daughter can see I kept my name and that she had both her mum and dads surnames and that I can tell her the reasons why. I think it sends out a good strong message.

I think everyone's circumstances are different. My parents were each married three times and I didn't feel my maiden name was synonymous with stability. Our two names, due to length, spelling and pronunciation would have been absurd double barrelled. One is quite enough to spell.

DD however is contemplating changing her name to the pronounced version (shorter and simpler) to double barrell.

I prefer Mrs to Ms. I preferred Miss to Ms. My choice and my right to exercise it.

You can always just use both. I legally have my family name still, but plenty of people will use the same last name as my husband and kids, so I just answer to both.

People are different. I will always correct people who address me as Mrs Hisname. There is no such person. It's a name I've never used. I find it an added irony that my (divorced and remarried) MiL persists in this, and I wonder what she would say if I began addressing her as Mrs Hisname, too? I already know the answer to that question: she'd be incensed, but she has more rightful ownership over that name than I could ever have. I've never used it; it was never mine, whereas it was hers for knocking on two decades!

Luckily for her I'm not so petty as she is, but I don't deny the thought has previously crossed my mind ...

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@KimikosNightmare in your opinion. I beg to differ. I did not chose my maiden name it was given to me. I actively chose upon marriage to change it to my husband's name. I had a choice and exercised it.[/quote]
So you chose someone else’s father’s name. Radical.

Actually @MarieIVanArkleStinks the fact that your MIL doesn't know that a divorced woman is correctly Mrs her name his surname (if adopted) would annoy me far more.

Yes it was radical @boombalina. Most of my friends were professional women and chosing to keep their maiden names - even 30 years or so ago. Even more radical was the fact that I kept obey in my vows fir the simple fact that I knew I was marrying a good and decent man who would never ask anything unreasonable of me. One has to look at the spirit behind the words and apply them to the times we live in.

Actually @MarieIVanArkleStinks the fact that your MIL doesn't know that a divorced woman is correctly Mrs her name his surname (if adopted) would annoy me far more.

She uses her second husband's name. It's natural to me to bestow upon other people the courtesy of their own name. She's never extended the same courtesy to me in return (actually she did once, having been rebuked by my husband, and then deliberately misspelled it and went straight back to the Mrs Hisname form of address).

I can't be bothered with it, to tell the truth. Life's too short. Rather than respond in passive-aggressive kind and make myself into something I despise just to make a point with her, I've gracefully stepped back.

Obvs. this is a long-standing issue and not just about the name, which is a mere symptom. I'd have overlooked that, if I didn't know it was a deliberate attempt (amongst many) to be snippy. But it was.

I can only speak for myself, but I was happy to change my name, when I got married. When I was a kid, my surname was used as the basis of a nasty nickname that was used to bully me - bullying that lasted for 6 years and left me with clinical depression, low self esteem and anxiety that still blights my life.

I also like the fact that dh, the dses and I all share the same surname - we are a unit. Obviously this could have been achieved by double-barrelling our names, or him taking mine, but in my case, that wouldn't have freed me from my parents’ surname and the associated bullying.

I married after we'd had kids and changed my name as I wanted the same name as my family, not specifically my husband's. That was more important than keeping my father's name.

@BrambleyHedge

I married after we'd had kids and changed my name as I wanted the same name as my family, not specifically my husband's. That was more important than keeping my father's name.

And why did the children get your husband's name over yours? There are steps that led to you changing your name and they all lead back to male supremacy.

Most marriage traditions are out dated.

To those that did change their names, do you wear an engagement ring? Did somebody walk you down the aisle, Did you wear a posh dress? Did any women give speeches?

I'm sure some here can answer no to all.of these. But to those that didn't change your name but wear an engagement ring... what's the difference?

But to those that didn't change your name but wear an engagement ring... what's the difference?
Do you really not see the difference between putting on a piece of jewellery and changing your surname??

To those that did change their names, do you wear an engagement ring? Did somebody walk you down the aisle, Did you wear a posh dress? Did any women give speeches?

Yes, yes, yes and no, respectively. I guess I ticked all the 'outdated' boxes. But I have a happy marriage to a husband who respects me and treats me like an equal. I don't really think what I chose to wear to my wedding has much to do with that tbh.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

But to those that didn't change your name but wear an engagement ring... what's the difference? Do you really not see the difference between putting on a piece of jewellery and changing your surname??

Putting on a piece of jewellery?! Um... Its a bit more than that, kind of symbolises you're '' taken '' and that you're the property of someone else now for anyone else wanting to date you. So bit hypocritical if anyone has a problem with name changing but not putting a ring on.