Late night thoughts... women changing surnames after marriage

[FatJan]

Not sure if this is the right board as I'm not fully sure where I'm going with this yet! Feels vaguely right, but happy for it to be moved.

Basically, I was scrolling through social media this evening and clicked on a post from a girl I knew at school which had got lots of comments.

As I scrolled down the post, I saw a load of comments from women whose names I didn't recognise.

I thought it was a bit strange I didn't recognise/couldn't remember who they were because the post was about something that happened at the school, and they were all talking as if they'd been there.

Suddenly I realised that I did actually know all of the women - they were all girls from our year.

I hadn't realised because they've all got married and now have their husbands' surnames.

It gave me a weird and not particularly pleasant feeling.

I haven't followed these ladies' lives over the years as they weren't in my close friendship circle, but I remember them well and how they were as children and teenagers.

Something about the fact that the identities they had when they were young no longer exist (on paper anyway) and they all have their husbands' names now made me feel a bit upset, which surprised me.

I'm trying to explore that feeling and I thought writing it down/sharing it might be a good place to start.

Obviously being happily married isn't a bad thing, so I think it's more the (perceived) loss of old identity thing that has given me a jolt, probably linked to the fact that men get to keep theirs.

I think it was also related to the fact it wasn't just one woman with a new name, it was the entire friendship group. It made it seem like the 'thing' to do, and I suppose it is, although I'm not sure how I feel about that. Some of the girls were very outspoken feminist types and to see them all as wives now with their husbands' name was a bit unexpected.

To be honest, I've been very in-my-head with the Sarah and Sabina cases and the ongoing discussions around things women go through that men don't, and this might be impacting the way I responded emotionally to that particular post.

Does the above make sense at all? Has anyone noticed or felt something similar?

If you marry a foreign spouse, it can be very awkward with travelling / obtaining visas if one parent has a different surname from the children. The assumption often is that it is not your natural child.

We’ve spoken about this, not due to get married for a couple years but we have a DD and we sat down and talked about surnames and which kind of went hand in hand with who’s name(s) will be kept when we do get married. We did talk about double barrelling it but the more we tried to get on board with double barrelling our surnames the more alien and wrong it sounded. We have completely different names and they just don’t work together. DP wanted to share a name with DD which is fair enough, I do too so then it was just deciding who’s name to take and we just decided on his.

@MaenadsJustWannaHaveFun

If you marry a foreign spouse, it can be very awkward with travelling / obtaining visas if one parent has a different surname from the children. The assumption often is that it is not your natural child.

So double barrel the surnames, either you, or your children, or you and your children, or even better, you, your DH and your children.

DH and I kept our own surnames when we got married but in laws still haven't got the message and I do find it awkward bringing it up. Still riles me when the Birthday cards come with the wrong surname. I should really say something but I do think they'd see it as a rejection of them rather than just an obvious decision on my part.
I genuinely thought it would be more common than it is

@Claudia84

DH and I kept our own surnames when we got married but in laws still haven't got the message and I do find it awkward bringing it up. Still riles me when the Birthday cards come with the wrong surname. I should really say something but I do think they'd see it as a rejection of them rather than just an obvious decision on my part. I genuinely thought it would be more common than it is

You can always just use both. I legally have my family name still, but plenty of people will use the same last name as my husband and kids, so I just answer to both.

If we are agreeing to the patriarchy (name changing being an example) then who else is going to break it down? And the more worrying thing is that through changing name some women cannot even see how this plays into the patriarchy - how can we ever change things? You have to acknowledge an issue before it changes - and men aren't going to stop it because it benefits them.

Therefore it's up to us, women as a collective to stop standing for it and saying no to these daft things in society that hinder us.

I chose not to change mine. I was mid 30s when we got married and already established in my career. Plus my surname is way nicer than his. We double barrelled the children's names. He was happy for them to have my surname only but I didn't like the idea that he was erased from their name too. But obviously that only works if you both have singular surnames.

A friend of mine and her DH picked a totally new married name for their family

Sounds great how you've done it @YukoandHiro if only we had more women to stand up like this

women as a collective
That's just it though - we aren't.
We're all independent women, with independent thought.
Capable of knowing what we do or don't want.
You (collective you, not you personally) can't speak for us all.

I have Swedish friends who both ditched theirs in favour of a posher one from distant relatives on the wife's side.
A French couple who use the wife's, again due to social climbing reasons.
Personally, Id choose the most aesthetically pleasing, DeWinter over Boggs for example. Double barrelling makes me cringe but understand from an equality pov.
I like the Spanish method of carrying on the maternal name, changing the paternal if you get married.
I think a certain type of person will cling to tradition longer than others, but for many people other options re. surnames feel perfectly feasible.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

women as a collective That's just it though - we aren't. We're all independent women, with independent thought. Capable of knowing what we do or don't want. You (collective you, not you personally) can't speak for us all.

If we don't fight injustices collectively how will anything ever change?

A bit like when protesters March in solidarity against climate change, racism or any other cause - they do it as a collective as it's the only way to bring change

If we don't fight injustices collectively how will anything ever change?

I absolutely agree that it's important for women not to have to take their husband's name. But they don't. So where is the injustice? I know that argument doesn't always stand - for example women have the right to do the same jobs men do, and earn the same salaries, but that doesn't mean it actually consistently happens. Inequality persists in the system. But in this case, the only person you are potentially up against in your desire to keep your own name is your husband-to-be. If he's treating you with injustice and inequality, you don't have to marry him!

@lazylinguist I think part of the problem is that it's not even given much thought. I've spoken to lots of my friends about this who said they took their husbands names without thinking and only realised a) how weird they felt about doing so when it was actually done b) hadn't examined it from a feminist angle and then in doing so regretted it. Of course some were happy to but I think many did as it was just 'the done thing' or 'the right thing to do'.

We kept our own surnames (DH's is nicer but that wasn't any reason for me to consider changing). Oh and they're not our Dad's surnames. We both have the same surname as our Dads but they are ours not theirs.

The following things have happened to me over the years.

Being asked "what was your maiden name"
Christmas cards all addressed to Mr and Mrs Dhsurname when previously they were correctly addressed to Mr His and Ms My Surnames - I never told anyone I was changing my title and surname so why did they assume I was? Same with birthday cards.
Cheques written out to Mrs DHsurname - again why? I never told anyone I was changing my name and title.

None of this has ever happened to DH, occasionally if I book something he might get addressed on arrival as Mr My surname but that's all.

All of which says very clearly that there is still a heavy weight of expectation that a woman will take her husband's surname on marriage.

It also annoys me that for the most part it is women who get stuck with all the admin of a namechange, sometimes more than once, most men will never even consider changing theirs because no one expects them to.

So I feel a little disappointed every time a female friend takes her husband's name on marriage. I assume she will have thought it through, but its disappointing when the outcome of the discussion upholds patriarchal traditions. But I doubt anyone makes the feminist choice every time, I know I don't (I have an engagement ring for example) so I try not to judge.

So I feel a little disappointed every time a female friend takes her husband's name on marriage. I assume she will have thought it through, but its disappointing when the outcome of the discussion upholds patriarchal traditions. But I doubt anyone makes the feminist choice every time, I know I don't (I have an engagement ring for example) so I try not to judge.

I completely agree, but I don't see engagement brings in the same way. It's a piece of jewellery not a whole change of your identity that involves lots of admin and is purely based on your gender.

Guess what I'm trying to say is i think name change is just very drastic

Fair enough, @pinacolada5 - women definitely should think about it.

@lazylinguist absolutely. I think I had the advantage of getting engaged slightly later than lots of them so had more time to think about it. I also discussed marriage and then chose my ring with my partner before we got engaged. I know it's terribly unromantic but I didn't trust him to get me one I liked haha. We've been engaged years and are still not married. Just haven't got around to it due to cost.

I think we have all had the experience of not recognising a former school friend because she's changed her name. But really, so what... you learn the new name and move on. There's no need to be bothered by it or make an issue out of her choice. My old best friend Mandi now insists on Amanda, and that was harder for me to get used to than the fact she's taken her husband's surname.

There are circumstances where it is useful to share a surname (e.g. when I was stranded in Morocco and Lloyds stopped my bank card as usual, despite my having informed them of the trip. I had a card of my husband's with me, and was able to use this. The hotel was satisfied by the shared surname that I had the right to, though I didn't look much like a Dave).

And there are times when double barrelling is ugly or not practicable. If one of your surnames is van den Ende, it's not easy to append a Moltisanti to that without running out of space on every form going. Where would the hyphen even go?

I was 30 when we married 30 years ago.

I chose to change my name
I chose to adopt Mrs
I have no problem being Mrs his name surname socially, usually only very formal things nowadays.

When we married I was the one who owned a house and earned the most. DH insisted on a pre-nup to ring-fence my equity. We have never had a joint bank account or an argument over money.

After 30 years we have independent interests still as well as wholly entwined lives lived as one.

A true feminist respects the choices of others.

Equality is a funny old thing. Next time, as a feminist, some of you sit in outpatients and hear the men called into appointments as Mr and the women without a title, usually by a female nurse, may I gently suggest you challenge it. It's that sort of latent micro aggression that erodes equality and in an organisation that lauds its commitment to equality.

I also like the fact that being a married Ms OwnSurname hopefully is a visible sign that I consider myself to be a feminist. Being Mrs DHsurname doesn't make anyone less of a feminist but it isn't as obvious.

A true feminist respects the choices of others

All and any choices of others?

You are spot on about the different ways older men and women get addressed.

I think the obvious signs are having a career, one's own money and and independence in decision making. By the time I married I trusted my judgement and didn't feel the need to demonstrate to others anything for a statement show.

Also, my surname upon marriage wasn't mine. It was my father's and before that his father's. Therefore my married surname is the name I independently chose to take upon marriage.

@EdgeOfTheSky

A true feminist respects the choices of others

All and any choices of others?

You are spot on about the different ways older men and women get addressed.

That's not feminism

I mean the initial comment isn't feminism.