Shamima Begum - misogyny at its finest?

[Schmoana]

Just saw the interview on GMB. It has struck me for a long time that there are hundreds of male ISIS fighters who are British citizens who have been allowed back and prosecuted where appropriate, even without grooming being a factor, and having been directly involved in killing. It’s hardly even reported. But this one woman has been vilified by the British people and British media, and made the figurehead of all that is wrong with ISIS. Her British citizenship has been stripped for populism.

Why is this one woman being held to different standards? What is the difference here between her and the hundreds of men who have been accepted back?

In what sense is the treatment of Begum misogynist and racist? Any examples? I already said the difference in her being totally responsible for what she did at 15 and Virginia Giuffre being a victim for what she did at 17. Obviously being blonde and blue eyed makes a big difference.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Well Bangladesh doesn't agree with you.

Doesn’t matter. Its down to their laws and international law. They tried to argue to the high court that stripping Begum of her U.K. citizenship was unlawful, and they lost.

So whose going to make them give her a passport and live in the country? And why should they take her in, she wasn't born there, she didn't grow up there, she didn't go to school there, she wasn't radicalised there. Are we so lacking in responsibility that we expect poor third world countries to deal with our problems?

Well she seemed looked after enough in her Nike cap and manicured nails. She's in a camp, to be honest in her position why does she want to return to be immediately remanded and imprisoned and possibly shipped off to the US once they find a war crime or two against her.

This doesn't make sense to me. She has more freedoms now than she will have at Guantanamo Bay....

A victim? Have you read what the intelligence service understands she was involved in?

Far from being groomed, she was a groomer. At 15 she knew right from wrong and the things she was allegedly a leading participant falls far short of being a victim.

In any case, being a victim does not absolve one of crimes they commit. 15 year olds can commit heinous crimes. I am pretty sure if she was male the conversation would be different. It would be lock up and throw away the key, especially if that 15 year old was a black boy. So many black boys are being groomed for a young age into street crimes. When they commit crimes, I do not hear society screaming that they are victims and should be treated with leniency and kids gloves.

Do not use racism and sexism to excuse this young lady’s criminal behaviour. Grooming may have been a reason but it certainly isn’t an excuse for her very criminal acts, which she knowingly and willingly committed and believed in.

I have found a white British ISIS Bride. She is Nora Camali.
She also has had her British citizenship stripped. She was not part of the ISIS female police. She was only a wife and mother. She was tried in Syria at the detention camp and sentenced to life in prison. Her daughter has been sent back to the UK to be raised by relatives.

Where is the racism? Why does a brown girl get TV crews and interviews on the BBC and a chance to garner sympathy, when no one has heard of this white girl?

Shamina Begum should be tried where she is like all the other ISIS brides, she’s not entitled to special treatment.

@ancientgran

In what sense is the treatment of Begum misogynist and racist? Any examples? I already said the difference in her being totally responsible for what she did at 15 and Virginia Giuffre being a victim for what she did at 17. Obviously being blonde and blue eyed makes a big difference.

You’re comparing a full ISIS member to a girl who was sex trafficked in the US. It’s disgusting false equivalence. At least try and compare white ISIS women to brown ISIS woman when making claims of racism.

So whose going to make them give her a passport and live in the country? And why should they take her in, she wasn't born there, she didn't grow up there, she didn't go to school there, she wasn't radicalised there. Are we so lacking in responsibility that we expect poor third world countries to deal with our problems?

They don’t have to take her back. You can be a citizen and still in exile or in prison in a foreign country. I think she should face trial in Syria like every other British ISIS Bride and take her chances like they have.

It would be lock up and throw away the key, especially if that 15 year old was a black boy. So many black boys are being groomed for a young age into street crimes. When they commit crimes, I do not hear society screaming that they are victims and should be treated with leniency and kids gloves.

This is so true. Children much younger than 15 have been tried as adults for their crimes.

I don't remember anyone showing any sympathy for Jihadi Jack either

I'm sure you'd be a real hero. Well done

How rude. Did you even read the post? How is NOT sewing teenagers into suicide vests being a hero rather than being an actual normal person.

The mind boggles on here sometimes.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I have found a white British ISIS Bride. She is Nora Camali. She also has had her British citizenship stripped. She was not part of the ISIS female police. She was only a wife and mother. She was tried in Syria at the detention camp and sentenced to life in prison. Her daughter has been sent back to the UK to be raised by relatives.

Where is the racism? Why does a brown girl get TV crews and interviews on the BBC and a chance to garner sympathy, when no one has heard of this white girl?

Shamina Begum should be tried where she is like all the other ISIS brides, she’s not entitled to special treatment.

Amen to that!

Shamina Begum should be tried where she is like all the other ISIS brides, she’s not entitled to special treatment

Absolutely

She constantly referred to the UK as 'your country'.
She's right. It's no longer her country.

@Spasiba

She constantly referred to the UK as 'your country'. She's right. It's no longer her country.

I noticed that too. She is fully indoctrinated.

@ancientgran

In what sense is the treatment of Begum misogynist and racist? Any examples? I already said the difference in her being totally responsible for what she did at 15 and Virginia Giuffre being a victim for what she did at 17. Obviously being blonde and blue eyed makes a big difference.

There is a massive difference . VG was not a terrorist. She didn’t harm anyone or betray her country.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Both Begum and Bangladesh have said she never had dual citizenship, though.

Not the case. She has Bangladesh citizenship by birth from her mother. All that Begum has said is she’s never owned a Bangladesh passport or been there. The only way to get rid of a citizenship you acquire by birth is by formally renouncing it, which Begum had not done. And as Boris Johnson well knows as he was born with US citizenship and had to renounce it.

So the UK who raised Begum and facilitated the society in which she became radicalised is now attempting to make her Bangladesh's problem by removing her citizenship? Despite it being a country she has no experience of and knowing she may face death there?

It would be nice if the British government would take responsibility for the terrorists it exports to other countries.
That in itself may do something to address the problem of terrorise

@PlanDeRaccordement

That’s not true that dual citizen men ISIS fighters are being held to different standards. All other dual citizens who fought for ISIS were also stripped of their British citizenship. Look up the Beatles.

The only ones that have been allowed back to face criminal proceedings in UK are those who are only British citizens because international law forbids making a person stateless.

The difference isn’t man vs woman, but dual citizen vs sole citizen.

This.

I didn't catch the whole intervenes and will watch at the weekend.

But I felt her answers were very well prepared by someone else and were not her talking.

She seemed to claim she wasn't radicalised and didn't go over to fight for isis but believed she was just becoming an isis bride.
Yet in the next bit claims she can help British government recognise radicalisation.

She was dieter radicalised and joined the cause of isis or she didn't.

Oh give us a break! She can rot in hell and she is where she belongs.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I have found a white British ISIS Bride. She is Nora Camali. She also has had her British citizenship stripped. She was not part of the ISIS female police. She was only a wife and mother. She was tried in Syria at the detention camp and sentenced to life in prison. Her daughter has been sent back to the UK to be raised by relatives.

Where is the racism? Why does a brown girl get TV crews and interviews on the BBC and a chance to garner sympathy, when no one has heard of this white girl?

Shamina Begum should be tried where she is like all the other ISIS brides, she’s not entitled to special treatment.

Another great post.

There is a massive difference . VG was not a terrorist. She didn’t harm anyone or betray her country. It isn't about what they did, it is the fact that one is a victim of grooming at 17 and one is totally responsible at 15.

I've just had a look on the Bangladesh citizenship page.

If one parent is Bangladeshi, then you are allowed dual citizenship.

This does not apply to every country. For example, you cannot have dual citizenship of Bangladesh and India or of Bangladesh and China but dual citizenship of Bangladesh and The United Kingdom is allowed.

To all those who are saying the UK won't have her back because of racism (this is unadulterated dog whistle bollocks by the way) what do you think Bangladesh's reasons are for not wanting her slopping up on their shores?

@SailYourShips

I've just had a look on the Bangladesh citizenship page.

If one parent is Bangladeshi, then you are allowed dual citizenship.

This does not apply to every country. For example, you cannot have dual citizenship of Bangladesh and India or of Bangladesh and China but dual citizenship of Bangladesh and The United Kingdom is allowed.

To all those who are saying the UK won't have her back because of racism (this is unadulterated dog whistle bollocks by the way) what do you think Bangladesh's reasons are for not wanting her slopping up on their shores?

Maybe because she was born in Britain, grew up in Britain, was educated in Britain and has never been to Bangladesh. Why should it be their problem?

@cricketmum84

I'm sure you'd be a real hero. Well done

How rude. Did you even read the post? How is NOT sewing teenagers into suicide vests being a hero rather than being an actual normal person.

The mind boggles on here sometimes.

Until there is a court case we don't know what she did. It is well known that many men ended up in Guantanamo because rewards were offered to people coming forward with information. We don't know what the truth is, that's why we have a legal system. If I say you are a terrorist and I've seen you making a bomb do you think everyone should just accept that?

You’re comparing a full ISIS member to a girl who was sex trafficked in the US. It’s disgusting false equivalence. At least try and compare white ISIS women to brown ISIS woman when making claims of racism. That isn't what I'm comparing at all. I'm comparing the fact that people are very ready to believe that one was a victim of grooming at 17 and one can't possibly be a victim of grooming at 15. What they were groomed for and who they were groomed by isn't the point. Either we accept that vulnerable teenagers can be groomed or we don't.

I'm not sure if it's race related or just that Begum is custody so is the perfect candidate to make an example of. But (correct me of I am wrong) Samantha Lewthwaite, the white jihadist bride of one of the London bombers and a suspect for involvement in the Westgate Shopping Mall attack, still remains a British citizen despite holding dual citizenship with Ireland.