Shamima Begum - misogyny at its finest?

[Schmoana]

Just saw the interview on GMB. It has struck me for a long time that there are hundreds of male ISIS fighters who are British citizens who have been allowed back and prosecuted where appropriate, even without grooming being a factor, and having been directly involved in killing. It’s hardly even reported. But this one woman has been vilified by the British people and British media, and made the figurehead of all that is wrong with ISIS. Her British citizenship has been stripped for populism.

Why is this one woman being held to different standards? What is the difference here between her and the hundreds of men who have been accepted back?

OP, if you have details of male murderous jihadis walking UK streets then yeah, the police would like to hear from you. Cos, no, they aren’t welcome either.

Shamima Begum is being made a high profile example - and I think the government have got this right. She is high profile because she is a woman, true. But anyone that high profile, male or female, could expect to have exactly this happen to them. Of course the UK government should make life hell for any jihadis with profile. If you need feminist backbone for this, just read what Shamima’s lot did to Yazidi women.

She can rot in hell for all I care. I find any sympathy for her absolutely abhorrent, similarly to her views, which I guess she's only putting aside opportunistically.

She was a child and she was groomed.

Even if she wasn't, you don't punish someone by removing their citizenship. Our citizen, our problem to sort out.

I found Sajid Javid's comment 'if you'd seen the information I'd seen, as sensible people, you wouldn't allow her back' very persuasive!

I am fascinated by this woman and this case. I admit I am torn on how I feel about it and what the answer is.

She was 15, young and impressionable and radicalized online. She has said some terrible things in previous interviews which will not endear her to the public. However, she was clearly immature.

I think my issue is, you do not know if what she is saying is genuine.

She did an interview where she claimed she saw a beheading and it did not bother her, now she is saying, she was coerced into saying those things.

We will never know, which version is the truth.

Intelligence has been leaked, which on a whole, is never totally believable, that she stitched people into suicide vests so if they tried to remove them, they would detonate. She also allegedly, was part of the military monitoring woman to ensure they were dressed appropriately. Was this also coercion as she claims.

Her appearance this morning was also bizarre. Manicured and painted nails, jewelry, long hair, branded headwear, she looked like a pop star giving an interview not a potential terrorist trying to get out of a refugee camp. The majority of the public, won't this and again, it will not endear her to them.

The death of her three children, is a horrific experience, but she seemed sketchy on the ages and details of these deaths.

Can she be trusted? That's the question that no one can be certain of the answer.

Is it because she is a woman? I really don't think so.

She has the right to Bangladeshi citizenship, but I can't see any reason why she should become their problem to sort out?

Country one: born there, raised there, citizen there.
Country two: never so much as visited.

I have a right to NZ citizenship through descent; I have also never visited there. I doubt people would insist that NZ should take me had I been in a similar situation. Shamima is a British problem to address.

The Beatles are an exceptional example because they are on video killing well known people. Hundreds of less known Isis recruits have returned and resettled in the UK.

don't condone what she's done, but lacking the capacity to understand the ramifications of what she has done,

She’s not lacking in capacity at all. She knows what she’s done. She simply has no remorse.

I agree with you.

More than anything she was just a child when she went there. 15!!

@PlanDeRaccordement

don't condone what she's done, but lacking the capacity to understand the ramifications of what she has done,

She’s not lacking in capacity at all. She knows what she’s done. She simply has no remorse.

I was quoting another poster who suggested she lacks the capacity to understand what she has done. I obviously don't know the truth myself – none of us do.

I'm completely torn on this issue. I watched her being interviewed and she seemed to speak so casually about her children dying. I couldn't work out if she was a total sociopath or completely traumatised.

@ChevreChase

She has the right to Bangladeshi citizenship, but I can't see any reason why she should become their problem to sort out?

Country one: born there, raised there, citizen there.
Country two: never so much as visited.

I have a right to NZ citizenship through descent; I have also never visited there. I doubt people would insist that NZ should take me had I been in a similar situation. Shamima is a British problem to address.

The Beatles are an exceptional example because they are on video killing well known people. Hundreds of less known Isis recruits have returned and resettled in the UK.

I would. Jack Letts or Jihadi Jack was British-Canadian. And he still had his British citizenship stripped.

The Beatles were just high profile like Shamina Begum, but we know that over 120 jihadists have also been stripped of their British citizenship since 2016.

I disagree that hundreds of ISIS recruits have returned and resettled in the U.K. That is an urban myth.

PLEASE DO NOT take the Beatles name in vain
Seriously. Don't tarnish the Beatles (or similar) with the filth of ISIS and assorted shitheads. I know the media have done this but it turns my stomach.

"The Beatles are an exceptional example because they are on video killing well known people." @ChevreChase

The way she held that baby showed she wasn't very mature and likely suffering trauma as she doesn't seem totally all there, detached, I feel bad for her.

I wouldn't trust her, damage done so young is hard to fix, as feminists say the brains of radicalised porn addicted boys is not always fixable, they just get more extreme over time, I would imagine it would be similar for this woman.

I was reading on a thread yesterday in feminism about pedos and the lower IQ and disordered thinking, experts can't seem to fix dangerous people at the moment.

I feel dreadful for them, they were failed as children and we need to look after them somehow, the general public should not be put at risk from them though.

Where can I find the full interview?

How were they failed as children? This is a ridiculous thing to say.

My guess is UK SS and her school failed her, what happened in school, what are the family really like? Had she had a head injury the NHS failed her on? That type of thing.

Farfalle88

How were they failed as children?

I thought the difference with Jack Letts was that he already had Canadian citizenship but Shamima could only claim Bangladeshi citizenship which Bangladesh also deny?

I mentioned the brain injury as the Jihadi John chap had a brain injury, those who knew him before and after said he wasn't the same afterwards.

What has the NHS and DfE learned from this?

Not one ounce of sympathy, sorry.

It doesn't matter what her gender is - she's a security threat.

@ajandjjmum

I found Sajid Javid's comment 'if you'd seen the information I'd seen, as sensible people, you wouldn't allow her back' very persuasive!

Exactly. Everyone here is seeing what her lawyers want you to see, not the truth. I have no sympathy for her and I don't want her back, she can stay there forever as far as I'm concerned.

@TodayIsGoingToBeAGoodDay

I thought the difference with Jack Letts was that he already had Canadian citizenship but Shamima could only claim Bangladeshi citizenship which Bangladesh also deny?

No, Shamina got her Bangladesh citizenship at birth. So she has had it all along. Bangladesh doesn’t deny she has citizenship, they only say she was not registered at birth, which doesn’t legally affect the fact she has citizenship.

@Seemssounfair

Just watched the interview. Looked and sounded very orchestrated to garner sympathy, probably coached by her lawyers.

The media has followed her story since she left the UK. There are many others in a similar situation, men and women and she should not be treated any differently just because she is a paper selling, viewer attracting "story".

The UK is resisting her and others returning as it would set a precedent for many others to return and the security risk is too high.

i thought that as well, when she stroked her hair, it wasnt natural

The constant covering of her mouth as well. That’s often a sign people are lying.

@PlanDeRaccordement
It's not an urban myth, the government's figures say that of the 900 or so who left to join ISIS, about 40% had returned by 2019. Only around 150 people have had the citizenship removed in the last decade, so that's a lot of people who are not being treated in the same way.

There remains no argument as to why Bangladesh should have to deal with other country's criminal citizens.

@JavaQ
I was referencing a previous post, but see your point and apologise, and will not refer to them as such.

@JavaQ

PLEASE DO NOT take the Beatles name in vain Seriously. Don't tarnish the Beatles (or similar) with the filth of ISIS and assorted shitheads. I know the media have done this but it turns my stomach.

"The Beatles are an exceptional example because they are on video killing well known people." @ChevreChase

apologies - i dont know what this means?