Shamima Begum - misogyny at its finest?

[Schmoana]

Just saw the interview on GMB. It has struck me for a long time that there are hundreds of male ISIS fighters who are British citizens who have been allowed back and prosecuted where appropriate, even without grooming being a factor, and having been directly involved in killing. It’s hardly even reported. But this one woman has been vilified by the British people and British media, and made the figurehead of all that is wrong with ISIS. Her British citizenship has been stripped for populism.

Why is this one woman being held to different standards? What is the difference here between her and the hundreds of men who have been accepted back?

I think she should be brought back to face justice here, everyone deserves a fair trial, we can't just deny people that because we abhor thier decisions. It was an odd interview to be honest, she was dressed as if to look overly westernised and saying she will name names means she is probably at a great risk of harm in Syria.

I think that she has been vilified as she is a young female, yes.

I need to watch it again, I think she avoided saying she will name names, she said she would help UK authorities understand how people became radicalised. Richard did ask the outright question would she name names, but I think she swerved it. I might be wrong as was watching during morning family chaos!

That’s not true that dual citizen men ISIS fighters are being held to different standards. All other dual citizens who fought for ISIS were also stripped of their British citizenship. Look up the Beatles.

The only ones that have been allowed back to face criminal proceedings in UK are those who are only British citizens because international law forbids making a person stateless.

The difference isn’t man vs woman, but dual citizen vs sole citizen.

I agree OP.

Ive just read article about her. Seems she thinks she can show others what a big mistake she made. . Not sure about this. I do feel a bit sorry for her. But I think the hard line stance leaving her where she is the best thing.

The way the British media portrayed these women when they were just children was quite disturbing .
Azadeh Moaveni’s book is a must read on this subject.

If she is refusing to name names I would doubt her sincerity to be honest

Yeah, these were children. Illegally married as children and sexually abused.

@Theunamedcat

If she is refusing to name names I would doubt her sincerity to be honest

She is in an extremely vulnerable position - would you, given her current location?

Misogyny and Islamophobia.

Many victims of grooming go on to groom other girls, that's part of their purpose to the gangs, to find new victims. But, when these girls are white, we still treat them as victims. Because they are, they have been manipulated into the criminal acts they committed. Yet a very different standard is applied to Shamima Begum.

OP, Begum also has Bangladeshi citizenship, through her Bangladeshi parents. If she is so desperate to get out of Syria, she can go there tomorrow.
The UK is legally entitled to remove citizenship from anyone who has a dual nationality elsewhere, as Begum has.

@PlanDeRaccordement

That’s not true that dual citizen men ISIS fighters are being held to different standards. All other dual citizens who fought for ISIS were also stripped of their British citizenship. Look up the Beatles.

The only ones that have been allowed back to face criminal proceedings in UK are those who are only British citizens because international law forbids making a person stateless.

The difference isn’t man vs woman, but dual citizen vs sole citizen.

Both Begum and Bangladesh have said she never had dual citizenship, though.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Misogyny and Islamophobia.

Many victims of grooming go on to groom other girls, that's part of their purpose to the gangs, to find new victims. But, when these girls are white, we still treat them as victims. Because they are, they have been manipulated into the criminal acts they committed. Yet a very different standard is applied to Shamima Begum.

But they don’t usually go on to fit bomb vests to suicide bombers or be part of the female police bullying, beating and killing other women like Shamina did. Nor do they become slave owners like Shamina did.

Babdoc, Bangladesh have, I believe, stated that she would be executed under their laws.

Both Begum and Bangladesh have said she never had dual citizenship, though.

Not the case. She has Bangladesh citizenship by birth from her mother. All that Begum has said is she’s never owned a Bangladesh passport or been there. The only way to get rid of a citizenship you acquire by birth is by formally renouncing it, which Begum had not done. And as Boris Johnson well knows as he was born with US citizenship and had to renounce it.

She tried to recruit others in her school, she’s alleged to have assisted in prepping suicide bombers and she’s also alleged to have played a much more prominent role within the ISIS state than she’s now letting on. I have some sympathy for her, but it’s pretty limited tbh.

She had agency, unlike the ethnic minority women in that region who were raped and forcibly married off. Nobody frogmarched her into Syria.

And I’d rather we’d not had to take back the single-citizenship ex-terrorists, tbh. Have they really changed their views, or are they just a fifth column that we’ve had to accept back in, that’ll blow up on us (no pun intended) when ISIS get a foothold back in Afghanistan?

Just watched the interview. Looked and sounded very orchestrated to garner sympathy, probably coached by her lawyers.

The media has followed her story since she left the UK. There are many others in a similar situation, men and women and she should not be treated any differently just because she is a paper selling, viewer attracting "story".

The UK is resisting her and others returning as it would set a precedent for many others to return and the security risk is too high.

I agree. Obviously she’s made some terrible choices with terrible consequences. But grown adults have been brainwashed by Isis, they are good at what they do. She has been condemned by the public and the media, much more so than men in same position. And people are ignoring the sexual abuse she must have suffered. None of that excuses what she’s done but prisons are full of people have have done horrendous things.

in Feb 2019, it was reported that Shamina is one of around 120 British jihadists stripped of citizenship:
“The home secretary, Sajid Javid, has announced plans to revoke the citizenship of the Islamic State recruit Shamima Begum. If the order proves successful, she will join the ranks of around 120 suspected jihadists and criminals since 2016 who have been stripped of their British nationality and banned from returning to the UK.”

So the OP is mistaken. She is not being treated differently from Male jihadists.

And people are ignoring the sexual abuse she must have suffered

Because she chose to marry her husband, I doubt she experienced any sexual abuse. That was reserved for the captured Yazidi women. She and her husband kept a Yazidi sex slave. She even defended the rape and murder of Yazidi sex slaves.

There is something inauthentic in the way she presents herself and what she says. I think she is traumatised , but also think she lacks the capacity to understand the ramifications of what she has done. She pays brief lip service, but it doesn’t seem to be more than superficial to me.
She needs to be put on trial and given an appropriate sentence. The intelligence on her suggests she is still a threat, but we aren’t being told what that intelligence is, obviously.

@PlanDeRaccordement

in Feb 2019, it was reported that Shamina is one of around 120 British jihadists stripped of citizenship: “The home secretary, Sajid Javid, has announced plans to revoke the citizenship of the Islamic State recruit Shamima Begum. If the order proves successful, she will join the ranks of around 120 suspected jihadists and criminals since 2016 who have been stripped of their British nationality and banned from returning to the UK.”

So the OP is mistaken. She is not being treated differently from Male jihadists.

Exactly! Maybe the question should be why is she the only one getting all the publicity in her fight to be allowed back?

“And people are ignoring the sexual abuse she must have suffered”

Why “must” she have suffered sexual abuse? She knew she was going out to marry a Jihadi, that was the whole point and that’s what happened. He’s a Dutch national and still alive in a prison camp.

Has she said he abused her? Has she ever said she was abused by anyone else? If that were true, surely she’d be screaming it from the rooftops at this point; she’s clearly prepared to say almost anything else to get back in so why wouldn’t she say that, if there was even a sniff of it?

There are allegations that she abused other women in her power though… who should garner the real sympathy.

There is a really good podcast called red handed which has covered this. I found it really eye-opening and I thought about it a lot. I would recommend any of you go and give it a listen, gives lots of information about Isis I'm up there actually about and hell people get recruited into it.

Overall it's one of my favourite podcast anyway, but that was a really good episode

@Farfalle88

There is something inauthentic in the way she presents herself and what she says. I think she is traumatised , but also think she lacks the capacity to understand the ramifications of what she has done. She pays brief lip service, but it doesn’t seem to be more than superficial to me. She needs to be put on trial and given an appropriate sentence. The intelligence on her suggests she is still a threat, but we aren’t being told what that intelligence is, obviously.

I don't condone what she's done, but lacking the capacity to understand the ramifications of what she has done, on top of her being traumatised (which I agree with), only suggests that she is more vulnerable, not less.

I do agree she needs a trial and an appropriate sentence. I think though that 'appropriate' for her could and should take into account this vulnerability.