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Feminism: chat

Worrying Texas state abortion laws

146 replies

shakeitoffshakeacocktail · 31/08/2021 13:18

I will try and link the article, they are trying to pass a law in Texas that would make anyone able to sue a person or business that is helping people have abortions.

The laws are already super strict in the state and this law somehow also means legal costs would go to the defendant if the case was won

I have been following the abortion laws in America for some years, there was a terrible story where a woman was arrested for endangering her fetus/ baby's life when she was shot (by another woman) in a parking lot, she lost her unborn baby and was SHE (mother) was arrested.

Sorry if I am not as eloquent as others on this topic but it seems so 'handmaidens tale' prequel in the US and it chills me.

I have never understood how a book (bible) and their faith can give them such superiority over others. I know there has been this issue across the centuries but they are such zealots and believe the words in the bible in such a literal sense.

Is it all a cover for power and a worry about birth rates? They want to keep the status quo and an almost Puritan society?

Why must old white men hold such power over all

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shakeitoffshakeacocktail · 31/08/2021 13:20

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Knittingupastorm · 31/08/2021 13:30

That is beyond absurd and I’m really hoping someone will come along to tell me I’ve misunderstood it.
Even if I agreed with the abortion law that’s coming in (which I vehemently do not), the idea that someone totally unconnected to anyone involved in the abortion, could sue someone for aiding and abetting it and get a minimum of $10,000 is beyond ridiculous. Can an individual be sued multiple times for a single abortion?
Do any other “crimes” have this ability for unrelated individuals to sue?

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shakeitoffshakeacocktail · 31/08/2021 22:04

I understand that a lot of lawyers have signed a petition to stop it going through as it is unprecedented in the legal system.

Why does abortion make them want to re-write the whole legal precedent.

It really makes certain people so unreasonable and steadfast in their opinion. Is it due to control? Can they not bear to live in a world where women have this choice? It is all part of a greater goal to repress women and make childbearing our 'responsibility' again all very handmaidens tale.

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NiceGerbil · 01/09/2021 02:34

They just don't fucking let up do they.

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arcof · 01/09/2021 03:38

It will likely be struck down by the Supreme Court (one hopes).

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littlebilliie · 01/09/2021 08:04

It's the Heartbeat law and it's in place this morning

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Floisme · 01/09/2021 14:54

Bumping

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shakeitoffshakeacocktail · 01/09/2021 16:16

Does anyone else have thoughts around the reason it matters so much to these people to (near enough) outright ban abortion? Do they see it as murder, is contraception and morning after pill going to go the same way?

Is this the start to trying to increase birth rates and decrease women's choice to be more than housewives and child barers?

Men will never be pregnant yet they make (all) the laws

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pointythings · 01/09/2021 17:55

It's about controlling women and their sexuality, plain and simple. The Bible is just an excuse - after all, that also says lots of things about feeding the poor and looking after those less fortunate - not at all what the pro-lifers are about. Once the child is born, it can fuck right off.

The Supreme Court did nothing because it's controlled by people who agree with this law.

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dreamingbohemian · 01/09/2021 18:07

It's horrific

It essentially bans abortion after six weeks, with no exception for rape or incest

The Supreme Court could have intervened but chose not to.

The pro-life movement in the US are so full of shit, they don't care about children, they just want to control and oppress women. They're as fundamentalist as the Taliban.

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dreamingbohemian · 01/09/2021 18:12

It's a dry run for overturning Roe and making abortion illegal in most of the US, and yes contraception will be next

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DucksFlyTogether · 01/09/2021 18:19

This is horrific! I mean ultimately we all know what will happen, unregulated, unsafe back street abortions.

Women denied rights = women die.

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RandomMess · 01/09/2021 18:20

It's so sad and scary and I say that as someone who thinks our current abortion laws are too liberal.

I'd be getting hold of abortion pills and recommending every other woman does because as soon as you know you're pregnant you're going to have to make as decision Sad

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NiceGerbil · 01/09/2021 18:27

@shakeitoffshakeacocktail

Does anyone else have thoughts around the reason it matters so much to these people to (near enough) outright ban abortion? Do they see it as murder, is contraception and morning after pill going to go the same way?

Is this the start to trying to increase birth rates and decrease women's choice to be more than housewives and child barers?

Men will never be pregnant yet they make (all) the laws

Yes. There's a lot on it. It's a 'wedge issue'. In the USA.

The frankly obsessive focus on it is about politics. It's a left/ right divider. Like gun control. Other things.

At this point it's not about abortion at all any more but about signalling a certain political stance and being seen to be standing up for certain values etc.

These politicians etc their daughters get pg at 17 when they're headed for Harvard etc no fucking way are they not quietly being taken for a termination.

And that's all. It's not as considered as actively oppressing women/ girls etc for most of the male right wing politicians doing this.

They don't pay any mind to damage etc or anything. I mean women and girls are not important unless close to them. They don't see the others as anything more than I dunno. They're not people.

The root is patriarchal control and certain religious views but that's not in the frame. It's about power and sides and the natural understanding that women/ girls are irrelevant.
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NiceGerbil · 01/09/2021 18:28

Sorry that was to op about thoughts on why etc.

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Warmduscher · 01/09/2021 18:30

@RandomMess

It's so sad and scary and I say that as someone who thinks our current abortion laws are too liberal.

I'd be getting hold of abortion pills and recommending every other woman does because as soon as you know you're pregnant you're going to have to make as decision Sad

What do you mean by “too liberal”? Genuine question.
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NiceGerbil · 01/09/2021 18:37

Also the states are very different.

As a UK person it's hard to get your head round the massive size of USA. It's probably not right but I find it easier to think of the states as different countries as that's more what I can relate to.

Like how countries in the EU are together but have massively different social norms, views on all sorts of stuff.

And look at Poland. And the laws in other EU countries and in European mainland which eu or not are still to me kind of neighbours shared histories etc.

Abortion in NI isn't long legal and before that some of the strictest rules in Europe. Part of uk. And still really difficult to actually get one there.

I think we need to face up to the fact that NI women still have a fight to get what they are legally allowed.

And what's in place and going on in Europe.

We are closer to them all than USA.

And remember that plenty of States in USA have decent abortion laws etc.

Yes it's awful.

But I do wonder why (and I do this all the time) news on this from the USA feels so urgent to UK women when there's so much else going on.

Not to say I don't care I do very very much- but why so much when there's stuff much nearer and culturally closer where there are massive issues around abortion.

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NiceGerbil · 01/09/2021 18:42

@RandomMess

It's so sad and scary and I say that as someone who thinks our current abortion laws are too liberal.

I'd be getting hold of abortion pills and recommending every other woman does because as soon as you know you're pregnant you're going to have to make as decision Sad

I'm also confused by this post.

Who is our?

Are you in texas? Where do you mean by our?

Why get hold of abortion pills? What does that mean? Why?

You can get contraception. Use condom. Morning after pill can you get that in Texas? Can you order in USA through online pharmacy I would guess so? Ditto with abortion pills. I'm guessing and ok a guess. That there are services in USA online based in other states where you can have online consult get map or abortion pills?

No idea obv but seems likely?
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merrymouse · 01/09/2021 18:43

But I do wonder why (and I do this all the time) news on this from the USA feels so urgent to UK women when there's so much else going on.

Because they speak the same language and we absorb so much of their culture we feel they should be like us - even though we are reminded over and over again that they aren’t.

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NiceGerbil · 01/09/2021 18:44

And what all women in what Texas? USA? Lies to get abortion pills when they aren't Pg?!

Fucking the stock for those who need it?

That's not on. And why? They work to ten weeks.

Can you explain more about that thinking/ where you are etc?

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RandomMess · 01/09/2021 18:47

That we can abort babies for choice reasons up to 24 weeks when babies born at fewer weeks gestation than that are now surviving.

Very rare that it happens and I'm sure they are very cautious around the number of weeks gestation.

Also the fact you can abort at any point due to disability. I have friends that aborted for some conditions and they were told their child would absolutely have the most extreme end of the spectrum of disability.

Overall the mothers welfare has to come first but I struggle reconciling at what point for the baby have a right to life when the can be sustained and survive post birth. I to trust that 99.9% of the professions do the right thing for the right reasons.

I wish there was so much better access to early pregnancy support for those who wish to consider termination. Easy access to the morning after pill, "abortion pills" and most definitely a huge shift for male responsibility for pregnancy and babies born. Cut the loop holes of the self employed not paying maintenance Angry

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NiceGerbil · 01/09/2021 18:53

Merry yes we do.

Agree.

And our media reinforce that.

In the end it's illogical though. It's an error of thinking.

It's a political wedge issue and well. USA political system is pretty peculiar. And that the final arbiter is a panel of judges that are politically elected?! I mean that's the opposite of impartial. It's absurd.

Yes I know why we do. I do and have. Like child marriage in some states. Horrifying. Because of this artificial like us thing.

In the end I remember USA abortion laws being big topic on here. While NI had amongst strictest laws in Europe. Part of uk

And Ireland v close neighbours. Loads of Irish people/ 2nd gen etc in England. Where I live.

And yet the USA occupies attention more.

Is it maybe because. Language and other things mean this sense of similar.

But it's far enough away to hand wrong because realistically we can't do anything? Just thinking out loud.

Not having a go I am 100% guilty of this as well.

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PlanDeRaccordement · 01/09/2021 18:54

there was a terrible story where a woman was arrested for endangering her fetus/ baby's life when she was shot (by another woman) in a parking lot, she lost her unborn baby and was SHE (mother) was arrested.

Actually both the women were arrested, charged and then later all charges were dropped against both of them.

The woman that shot the pregnant woman was arrested and charged with murder and attempted murder. The pregnant woman was arrested and charged with manslaughter. In that particular case the pregnant woman started a fight in the car park and was physically beating the other woman who then shot her. So the pregnant woman did in fact endanger her unborn child by physically attacking another woman in a stand your ground state like Alabama where you can shoot someone legally if they are attacking you.
edition.cnn.com/2019/07/03/us/pregnant-alabama-woman-manslaughter-indictment/index.html

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NiceGerbil · 01/09/2021 18:56

@RandomMess

That we can abort babies for choice reasons up to 24 weeks when babies born at fewer weeks gestation than that are now surviving.

Very rare that it happens and I'm sure they are very cautious around the number of weeks gestation.

Also the fact you can abort at any point due to disability. I have friends that aborted for some conditions and they were told their child would absolutely have the most extreme end of the spectrum of disability.

Overall the mothers welfare has to come first but I struggle reconciling at what point for the baby have a right to life when the can be sustained and survive post birth. I to trust that 99.9% of the professions do the right thing for the right reasons.

I wish there was so much better access to early pregnancy support for those who wish to consider termination. Easy access to the morning after pill, "abortion pills" and most definitely a huge shift for male responsibility for pregnancy and babies born. Cut the loop holes of the self employed not paying maintenance Angry


You are in the UK? And not NI but England Wales Scotland?

Why are you getting abortion pills in and telling other women to do the same. Because of something happening in Texas?
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RandomMess · 01/09/2021 18:56

Male on female domestic violence is no longer illegal in Russia. Again church supported.

It's just horrific AngrySad

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