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Feminism: chat

What to do about DH's misogynistic friend --advice please

51 replies

Sunshine1066 · 27/08/2021 10:34

Typing on phone so please excuse typos.

It's fairly long but the shortest version is that DH has a group of friends that he's known for 20-25 years. One of the men delights in making "outrageous" statements and usually people just roll their eyes, tell him not to be a dick and move on. During lockdown #1 we were all on a video call and he said (not for the first time) some pretty shitty things about women including that women have complete equality, no issues and should "move over" for other marginalised groups. I pointed out that it isn't a race to the bottom, that in an ideal world (which this isn't, I admit) there would be pie for everyone and we have to try and aim for that, and his comments were crass in a week where the rise in domestic murders of women during lockdown was all over the news. He just carried on spouting stuff. It got so bad we left the call and another man who'd been on the call later messaged DH to ask if I was okay (at that stage I was the only woman left).

I sent him a (thoroughly vetted!) message the next day to say he had been pretty upsetting and maybe if a woman was pointing out to him that sexism was still a thing then he should listen, in the same way that we would both listen if a black or Asian friend told us something was racist. He then sent me a barrage of increasingly angry messages in which he called me homophobic (he is gay, I'm bisexual but since I met him through DH it's never come up) and racist (we are both white). I didn't reply to any of this (angry, upset, fucking insulted) and in his last message he offered to have me over to visit in his garden and he would educate me to be less racist and homophobic.

A year later and he's now asking us, via DH, to come over. I don't want to see him or socialise with him. I tend to think that if he really thought I was racist or homophobic he wouldn't want to socialise with me either. And I also now think that he's not just saying these things out of a childish need to shock people, but actually he thinks them and on that basis I don't want to see him.

DH has said I'm busy but he's adamant he wants to see us both.

I don't think I can do it. I thought to name change and ask on here (specifically so the misogyny isn't downplayed - it was horrible and I was shaking afterwards) in case anyone has any wise words. DH has offered to drop the friendship but the group has been going for so long and I don't want drama. Ideally they'd just socialise without me. Both the other women in the group have as little to do with the group as possible, because of this guy, but they've had 20 years to make excuses and get into a more distant pattern. DH has suggested that I talk to him again, or he's offered to talk to him himself, but I don't think the guy will listen or change.

I'm not sure there is a better solution,but I'm hoping there might be? Flowers for wading through all that and any advice! It's really bothering me as they talk to each other every day in a group chat so it's not going away as a problem.

OP posts:
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Lottapianos · 27/08/2021 14:13

Good grief, he sounds awful. As others have said, he doesn't get to demand what you do with your time. DP goes to visit, if he wants to, you will be busy. Forever. End of story. And don't waste any energy on contacting him to say how he made you feel - he would probably get a huge kick out of it. Just avoid him' like the plague and get on with your life

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JonahofArk · 27/08/2021 14:18

Why are you even worrying about this? Nobody is owed your time. You do not have to do anything you do not want to do. Don't lie and don't placate, just be honest.

'I will not be coming because I don't want to be in your company.' It's as simple as that. If he pushes: 'I don't have to explain myself.' That's it.

On a separate note, I would not think very highly of a partner who wanted to maintain a friendship with this sort of person. We are all entitled to our opinions, but the fact that he is so adamant in pushing himself and his opinions on to you is a concern, and your partner is letting you down if he does not tackle this head-on as far as I'm concerned.

All things considered this man sounds like an absolute bully-do not dance to his tune.

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Justasecondnow · 27/08/2021 14:23

You’ve done the decent thing to try and get him to consider his views but he’s not having it. It’s not your job to educate him. I say don’t see him anymore, have your dh make excuses for you and don’t give him a second thought.

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Changechangychange · 27/08/2021 14:27

he's adamant he wants to see us both

He can be as adamant as he likes, you’re under no obligation to see him.

It’s crystal clear he only wants to see you to have another go at you, why on earth would you open yourself up to that again?

This is his misogyny again - he doesn’t think women get to say “no” to men.

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DPotter · 27/08/2021 14:33

I totally agree it's absolutely fine for you not to see or speak to him ever again. Why would you ? he's been foul to you

I also think it's a shame the other (male) members of the group don't pull him up on his behaviour towards women.

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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longtompot · 27/08/2021 14:34

This comment alone would make me not go over as it sounds threatening and in his last message he offered to have me over to visit in his garden and he would educate me to be less racist and homophobic
It's tough shit if he only wants to see you both. It's not up to him. I wouldn't say I was busy either, just I won't be coming over to your house.

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Sunshine1066 · 27/08/2021 15:29

Thanks everyone Smile

DH replied to say he would go over by himself and that I wasn't available. In terms of the other men in the group, the one who asked DH whether I was okay always challenges him and looks visibly scornful at times. From what DH says the bloke has got worse as he's got older (or maybe the others have grown up a bit?).

I think there's also something to be said for the fact that it's an all-male and mostly all-white gathering, so a lot of things are hidden. Plus they spend loads of time talking about families and hobbies; it's not all political stuff.

I think I have been guilty of not noticing it as much as I should have done; he's made sweeping statements previously about how 'school mums' think every child needs a mum (rather than two dads / loving parents) and how they're "all" bitchy and homophobic. Until his outburst on the call last year I had always assumed the generalisations were clumsy wording on his part and he was speaking directly from his specific experiences - now I wonder whether this was part of a wider mysogyny. He also often says these things in front of his kids and, whilst I have challenged him, I'm not about to get into a flaming row in front of a child.

OP posts:
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TeiTetua · 27/08/2021 16:28

Responding to "Both the other women in the group have as little to do with the group as possible, because of this guy"

and "DH has ...offered to talk to him himself"

I think it makes sense, since DH is the man in the middle here, for him to talk to Mr Nasty and say, "Women won't have much to do with our group, and it's because you're in it. My own wife says the same. Are you capable of treating women decently, or do we just continue this way?"

Well, realistically it's not likely to be worth it. But I do think he should be told the part about "You're so unpleasant to women that no woman wants to go near you".

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ScreamingBeans · 27/08/2021 18:16

Get your DH to say "Sunshine's not coming because she hasn't had an apology from you for the awful way you spoke to her and she wants nothing more to do with you."

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NiceGerbil · 27/08/2021 18:59

DH has told him no. Given a polite excuse.

Pushing is ??

Unless he's totally clueless he knows why you are 'busy'.

He's pushing DH into a corner.

DH has said no that's that. No. Busy. I'm coming. Why isn't that good enough ??!! (In a jokey way!).

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NiceGerbil · 27/08/2021 19:04

If he pushes. Then it's because he's going to bring it all up again/ wants a row with DH etc.

And if he's doing that then he's a nasty piece of work all round.

So if he starts giving other dates/ when is she free we'll do it then.

I suppose the only thing to do is for DH to say well after what happened it's clear to her you don't like women much so why would she spend time with you.

I think he will argue and go on and on. Wants to do a poor me she's so mean.

Best to just say no. She's not coming. That's that.

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NiceGerbil · 27/08/2021 19:05

Oooh I know!

On any and all dates he might suggest. You're busy all the time now as you've got actively involved in a bunch of women's rights groups and are in meet ups marches etc.

Yes definitely get him to say that!

Point made. And he can't argue.

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AmandaHoldensLips · 27/08/2021 19:10

Pass a message along with your DH saying that you'd rather pull your own eyes out with a spoon than spend an evening in his vile company. That should do it.

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ChateauMargaux · 27/08/2021 19:46

In your own words.. bollocks to that

His mysognist views do not make you homophobic.

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TheSunnySide · 27/08/2021 20:52

'but he's adamant he wants to see us both.'

Bad luck to him then. DH can go on his own, surely.

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WhereYouLeftIt · 28/08/2021 15:46

"DH has said I'm busy but he's adamant he wants to see us both."

Fuck his being adamant! Why would you waste your precious time on a total wanker like this? Who you spend time with is not up to him. He sounds singularly unpleasant and it is well past time that the rest of the group told him where to get off.

And yes, I would judge the rest of the group by the company that they keep.

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lazylinguist · 28/08/2021 16:35

DH has said I'm busy but he's adamant he wants to see us both.

Tough luck. If your dh still wants to see him, he can explain that you won't be coming because you think he's a sexist arsehole. He doesn't get to demand to see you ffs! Especially as he certainly only wants to so that he can harangue you again. What an idiot!

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KimikosNightmare · 28/08/2021 18:18

I'm really not following your dilemma. You don't want to go; your husband is quite happy to go on his own. What's the problem?

I have friends my husband rarely meets up with and vice versa for his friends.

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thinkingaboutLangCleg · 29/08/2021 06:03

Don’t waste another moment thinking about this misogynist, OP. He’s already had a lot more of your time and courtesy than he’s entitled to. I feel sorry for his children.

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PaulaTrilloe · 29/08/2021 06:23

An invite isn't a summons

What a nasty piece of work!

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QuentinBunbury · 29/08/2021 10:51

I think he's trying to get your DH in the middle.
I'd contact him directly and say I wasn't interested in a friendship with him as our world views are incompatible, please stop asking to see me. Then ignore him. Try to extricate your DHfrom being a middle man.

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ChaToilLeam · 29/08/2021 10:54

TBH the whole group ought to drop this obnoxious man. Then he might get the message.

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Lweji · 29/08/2021 10:59

Why isn't the entire group, and, yes, your DH too, challenging him?
By all means encourage him to socialise, but does it have to be with this man?

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SnoopyLights · 30/08/2021 15:22

A year later and he's now asking us, via DH, to come over. I don't want to see him or socialise with him.

You don't have to. Don't go.

I tend to think that if he really thought I was racist or homophobic he wouldn't want to socialise with me either.

He wants his chance to 'educate' you or to continue unchallenged with his misogynistic behaviour. Don't go.

And I also now think that he's not just saying these things out of a childish need to shock people, but actually he thinks them and on that basis I don't want to see him.

He does actually think them. He's been telling you all for years who he really is and what he really thinks of you / women. You don't have to see him if you don't want to (and why would you want to?) Don't go.

DH has said I'm busy but he's adamant he wants to see us both.

That's his problem. He can be as adamant as he likes but he can't make you visit him. Don't go.

I don't think I can do it.

You don't have to do it. Don't go.

I thought to name change and ask on here (specifically so the misogyny isn't downplayed - it was horrible and I was shaking afterwards) in case anyone has any wise words.

You shouldn't have to be near anyone who makes you react like that. The only wise words I have are don't let him do this to you again. Don't go.

DH has offered to drop the friendship

Let him. Don't go.

but the group has been going for so long and I don't want drama. Ideally they'd just socialise without me. Both the other women in the group have as little to do with the group as possible, because of this guy, but they've had 20 years to make excuses and get into a more distant pattern.

Your DH doesn't have to drop the group, and it sounds like the others in the group are as sick of this man as you are. Your DH can socialise with them. What's he getting out of this friendship with this man?

DH has suggested that I talk to him again, or he's offered to talk to him himself, but I don't think the guy will listen or change.

He won't change. Don't speak to him. Your DH can speak to him about his behaviour if he likes and wants to waste his own time and get into his own argument, but it won't change anything and ultimately your DH is choosing to allow this behaviour by continuing to see him and suggesting you speak to him when he knows you don't want to. Don't speak to this man again. Don't go.

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powershowerforanhour · 30/08/2021 17:06

he's adamant he wants

He'll have to want, then.

Yay to the group member who challenges him.

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