Is anyone else looking at Afghanistan?

[PickUpAPepper]

I'm unhappy about the abandonment of these women in Afghanistan. Johnson's speech is the usual male-centred self-justificatory claptrap. Freedom, justice, equality and even terrorism - all of it only means anything when men or money are involved. These women deserve freedom from the Taliban, and support to find it.

news.sky.com/story/i-dont-want-them-to-die-bitterness-resentment-and-fear-as-afghanistans-new-generation-left-to-fend-for-themselves-12349139

I don't know enough about Afghanistan's history. I read some really interesting opinions on another recent thread, from ex services personnel who served in Afghanistan, and I admit after previously thinking that it's a disgrace that the west are pulling out, after reading their thoughts I'm not sure what we can honestly do long term. Not that I think we should leave women and children to suffer, or that we should abandon them. I can't stand it, I just honestly don't know what the answer is. Just because it's difficult doesn't mean we should do nothing, I completely agree. I don't know what the solution is, long term. What would work? I think we should offer asylum where possible. Other more stable countries in the region- what can they do at all- would that be better than the west interfering?

People should remember the cuts the government made to ODA earlier this year too, I think it was a disgrace, and will cause so many deaths and hardships to the worlds most vulnerable people. Girl's education is supposed to be one of the FCDO priorities- I wonder if Raab will comment on what will happen to girl's education in Afghanistan with the taliban back in power.

Throughout history the UK and the US have interfered with disastrous consequences. And this, along with Iraq, is another recent example. I can't believe 20 years has passed since 9/11, and all the events that followed. It makes me so sad to think this is where it has ended up.

DOn't hav emuch time but I want to suggest a few things. In terms of donations, as many of you lovely people have expressed a desire to help. Please wait. Please do not donate right now. If money moves into Afghanistan, it will likely end up funding the Taliban and be used counter to what you want it to do. When we settle these Afghans in other countries, remember them, and donate to them. They will be going to the UAE, UK, Canada and US, yes, but many will go to the likes of Kosovo, Albania, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. As you can imagine, these countries do not have the infrastructure to manage large refugee resettlement. Identifying the NGOs who are going to fill that gap is key, and supporting them is where your money is best spent. I expect to be in Afghan until it’s impossible to remain, but once I’m back home, I will happily help identify these groups if any of you want to pursue this. In addition, it is not safe for exfiltrated Afghans to remain in Qatar, despite the fact that I think about 6,000 will end up there. If you can, lobby your MP to get them to the UK, anywhere that isn't Qatar.

I do wonder about the intelligence/strategic thinking of our military and political leaders given they all seem surprised by the speed of the Taliban's advances

Surely they are just pretending to be surprised to get themselves off the hook? I can't imagine anyone didn't expect this to happen.

I read The Junior Officers' Reading Club which gave a certain incite into the army's activities whilst over there at the height of the campaign.

Mainly I learnt that young men just do crave "a bloody good fight" although the novelty wears off once the casualties start piling up.

Probably the best thing anyone could do would be to flood water supplies across the world with some sort of testosterone agonist to reduce male testosterone levels on a global scale. These are the dreams that help me sleep.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheJuniorrOfficers'ReadinggClub

This is all so awful and terrifying; were it not for an accident of birth, it could be any one of us.

From the Guardian:

“I thank [the dead British troops and their families] for the immensity of the sacrifice,” [Boris Johnson] said. “But I don’t believe it was in vain. Because ... to a very large extent the threat of al-Qaida was greatly, greatly reduced and there was the further advantage that 3 million girls were educated....”

Who gives a fuck if 3 million girls were educated if they’re just going to be murdered or enslaved? So fucking disingenuous and typical mealy-mouthed bollocks from the West.

@TrampolineForMrKite you are right, and I am so angry about this and the futility of it all. Have been thinking about this all day.

Who gives a fuck if 3 million girls were educated if they’re just going to be murdered or enslaved?

So it would have been better if they had not been? That there had been no years when girls benefitted and the boys of that generation saw it as the right thing?

That there should have been no attempt to improve the lots of girls when occupying forces were there, in case it went wrong?

That the education they received was only a transitory benefit, and it will not have stood them in better stead for life?

Really?

I think @TrampolineForMrKite was being sarcastic @VikingVolva

For those upthread looking for a charity to donate to Rory Stewart has tweeted about it.

twitter.com/rorystewartuk/status/1426234055146758148?s=21

[quote FannyCann]I think @TrampolineForMrKite was being sarcastic @VikingVolva**

For those upthread looking for a charity to donate to Rory Stewart has tweeted about it.

twitter.com/rorystewartuk/status/1426234055146758148?s=21[/quote]
I was being sarcastic. Of course I’m glad they’ve been educated @VikingVolva. I’m just angry that it might all have been for naught.

Good to know you were being sarcastic, I read it the same as vikingvolva

I read it as the same anger, frustration and helplessness many of us seem to be feeling.

I don’t remember seeing such a repudiation and critique of the US policies before either. Sky news has a couple of stories about the situation, all with British politicians being very keen to complain about the US pull-out. I won’t derail this right now, but the implications following Brexit are interesting. It’s true local powers in the region need to come together here, surely no one wants this bunch of rabid god-mouthing murderers on their doorstep?

Meanwhile if all the knowledgeable people can keep us informed regarding financial help, for the little any of us can do, it would be appreciated and thank you.

What happened to the regular Afghan army? They were trained, armed and then what? What about the regular police? 20 years of training and arming. Where are they in this?

@BarbarianMum

The truth is various powers have been fighting to bring their versions of civilisation "freedom, justice, equality etc" to Afghanistan for over 200 years and it's always been a total failure. Horrible though it is (and it is, and not only for women) this is a society where the people need to be left to work it out for themselves. Pax Britannia doesnt work here.

I agree. We've had enough of our own young men die, be horribly maimed, and psychologically injured for me too no longer feel we should send our military to Afghanistan.

Everyone who says we should "do something" - would you go? Would you voluntarily send your 18 year old son or daughter?

I saw the coffins come up Wootton Bassett's High St far too often.

Saying "we should do something" is easy. "Doing something" isn't.

I keep asking myself that. My dd is nearly the age of those being seized as brides. If it was the country next door, yes, we’d be fighting. Somehow. For somewhere on the other end of the continent in an entire region where women are so hated it’s easy to become demoralised and ask more questions. It’s horrible.

It comes close to being a sex-based war doesn’t it.

@PickUpAPepper

It comes close to being a sex-based war doesn’t it.

Really?

I don’t think so. How do you work that out?

As offensive as it may be to western eyes, marrying 12-year olds is sanctioned by the Koran and is therefore ok in Afghanistan. No doubt the practice continued in rural areas while the Taliban were away anyway - it just happens to have been seized on by the tabloids.

Let them get on with it. Twenty years of trying to impose progressive values, and the whole thing collapses like a house of cards in weeks, again leaving hordes of military hardware in Islamist hands.

No more sacrificing our military to hold this farce together. Please do not write to your MPs just to make yourselves feel better - we have more than enough here already. A hundred or so military translators is adequate. Leave them to it.

Outside interference was never wanted, and they knew from the outset western forces would leave after 20 years.

Canada has just announced they will take 20,000 Afghan refugees. I hope other countries will step up too.

Good on Canada, hope they find safety

I genuinely have no words....which is rare for me.
I’m looking at it from a feminist perspective but also from the veteran perspective. It’s a very bitter pill to swallow in every single sense, and I’m honestly scared of how this will affect a lot of my ex-colleagues

Let us hope Pakistan seize the opportunity to do some good and actively invite WAC, from any caste.

One thing that is different now is the internet and more access to remote villages. Things have changed in the last twenty years, the people have a fraction of control now.

This affects women everywhere. We are made aware that women are treated horrifically in other countries from when we are young and it affects us mentally.
It makes us stupidly grateful for the basic human rights we have and undermines our confidence in pushing for more equality.
We can’t enjoy the freedoms we have because we are shown how fragile the system is and how easily they can be removed.
The threat is always there.

I backpacked around SE Asia in the mid-90s and encountered the Taliban in Quetta, Pakistani. They are terrifying.

Also, is anyone else on Flightradar24? I had a look the other day and flights were crossing Afghanistan at 40,000 feet. Today the airspace is very quiet.

My heart is bleeding for every single family in Afghanistan who fear for their lives because of this withdrawal.

Sorry, typo re Pakistan.

It is absolutely appalling. But what is happening in Afghanistan is not the fault of the British government.

But the British Government isn't entirely innocent. They were very po-faced when the Russians went in, but then happily chose to back the Americans up after 9 -11. Supposedly to track down Bin Laden, who was found holed up in Pakistan.