Is anyone else looking at Afghanistan?

[PickUpAPepper]

I'm unhappy about the abandonment of these women in Afghanistan. Johnson's speech is the usual male-centred self-justificatory claptrap. Freedom, justice, equality and even terrorism - all of it only means anything when men or money are involved. These women deserve freedom from the Taliban, and support to find it.

news.sky.com/story/i-dont-want-them-to-die-bitterness-resentment-and-fear-as-afghanistans-new-generation-left-to-fend-for-themselves-12349139

I am very much hoping that the twitter storm is exactly that - just twitter.

But as we've woken to the news that Jalalabad surrendered without a fight, then that is very bad news for those who wish to flee as it gives control of main road routes to Pakistan

It can't however be long before the Taliban do advance on Kabul, so there is only a short time for evacuation flights

Reuters have announced that the Taliban have made a move on Kabul

And apparently the Taliban hold all the border crossings so the only way out is via Kabul Airport.

Just coming to post that Floris
We can only hope it's quick because it won't be bloodless.
There are still plenty of non Afghan forces in Kabul Taliban could have waited a bit but they obviously wanted a scrap (likely emboldened by their new kit from ANA) God help the WAC and refugees.

@FlorisFigure

Reuters have announced that the Taliban have made a move on Kabul

My God, the evacuation of westerners are barely started, let alone Afghan staffers.

I read earlier that the Taliban demanded that the US cease bombing or they would move immediately on Kabul - which was clearly a lie, they were going to move immediately either way. They were simply hoping the US would fall for it and give them an easier advance into the City.

I've just read that the Aussies were going to evacuate their people Monday.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

What happened to the regular Afghan army? They were trained, armed and then what? What about the regular police? 20 years of training and arming. Where are they in this?

I heard a military trainer on the radio on Friday saying the Afghani troops he trained were good and disciplined, but the hierarchy was incompetent and corrupt to the core.

There was no leadership in place.

Al Jazeera has them already in the city. They are much closer geographically and seem to have much better sources for international news. www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/15/taliban-enter-kabul-from-all-sides

The Afghan army was never worth the name, and women have been betrayed by men again.

What an absolutely dreadful situation. I am no expert but apparently the USA backed moves to get the decent rulers out ( sorry can’t remember the dates) the rulers who wanted equality for women. The USA spend billions supporting the opposition to this, the people who wanted women uneducated, covered up and subservient. The reason was political because support for the liberal government was from the USSR and the USA did everything it could to support any opposition to a USSR backed regime.
Absolutely unforgivable. As usual the losers were women and children.
In the 1970s women wore westernised clothes and had aspirations and ambitions. All this has since ended on the insistence of the bastards who hate women and are power crazy. The only way to stop this is to capture them and detain them indefinitely, give women and girls legal protection and enforce it. A task other governments shy away from. Go in and impose it hard, no negotiating would work. Evil men like this do not respect democracy or diplomacy. The only thing they respect is a gun held to their head and the words do as I say or else.

I heard a military trainer on the radio on Friday saying the Afghani troops he trained were good and disciplined, but the hierarchy was incompetent and corrupt to the core.

Not surprised there, there was footage of the house of one of the "marshals", in the papers today Dostum and it was a bit like Saddam's palaces.

Although, it seems that was the least of his problems...

Why is the mulsim community worldwide not banding together to condem the talisman, showing that itsm isn't what their religion is about and what it really is. Except there is silence

@Dreamstate

Why is the mulsim community worldwide not banding together to condem the talisman, showing that itsm isn't what their religion is about and what it really is. Except there is silence

Does the international nominal Christian community normally band together to condemn western atrocities? Or does it hem and haw, say something diplomatic, and look the other way?

Have our governments banded together to condemn this absoute bollock of a withdrawal? Because, from our governments today, I hear nothing but stoney silence.

In the 1970s women wore westernised clothes and had aspirations and ambitions

Yes, the 1970s were quite a calm time. All came to an end with the USSR Christmas invasion of 1979, and the US operation Cyclone which funded the resistance - whose successors and allies are (broadly) the Taliban (where Haqqani's organisation ended up), al-Qaeda and ISIS - all of whom overlap or cooperate at times eg by provide safe territory for training camps

Actually, in the recent past, it did, yes. Israel was founded on it. You can argue about various points concerning that country's founding and current / future direction, but as far as I remember the UN and Human Rights legislation is founded on western values, as was the condemnation of Naziism. The War Crimes Court is in The Hague. Meanwhile under Islam, fundamentalism is growing and women are virtually invisible. I've rarely heard of any concept of war crimes from central Asia. China, yes.

There is also a lot of Tory unhappiness about the withdrawal. As I said, I have rarely seen such repudiation of US policies. I'm not old enough to remember Vietnam though. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58177193

@PickUpAPepper

Actually, in the recent past, it did, yes. Israel was founded on it. You can argue about various points concerning that country's founding and current / future direction, but as far as I remember the UN and Human Rights legislation is founded on western values, as was the condemnation of Naziism. The War Crimes Court is in The Hague. Meanwhile under Islam, fundamentalism is growing and women are virtually invisible. I've rarely heard of any concept of war crimes from central Asia. China, yes.

That was great, but there was an awful lot of looking the other way - and refusing refugees - during the holocaust. Really, what we did in the end was the least we could do. We really aren't magically more community minded, on that occasion, we fucked up so badly the utter shame of it required a big response.

Anyway, I digress.

I think, IIRC, the communist government of the 60s and 70s (when we see the photos if the female students wearing knee length skirts) was starting to fail which is why Russia went in to prop it up.

The Mujahideen were seen as the good guys (ha ha) fighting the evil Russians and they were funded by the US and GB. From what I’ve been reading, the last 20 years have been progressive for women and 60% of the students at Herat University were women until 2 days ago.

Those poor women and girls. This is a tragedy. The 20th Anniversary of 9/11 is less than a month away. There is no justification for this pull-out, none at all.

There is no justification for this pull-out, none at all.

It's so sudden, and so disorderly, and therefore so amoral, that it makes me wonder if we're in fact withdrawing troops to deploy elsewhere or (and) destabilising the region on purpose.

I'm really struggling with this. It's just so terrifyingly swift and for the people living there it must be a nightmare. Just feel so powerless to help. What can we do to help?

The only 'justification' is that apparently most of the American public are behind it, as they don't care about the rights of women and children in Afghanistan.

Regardless of what we thought about the intervention, the air support was easily continuable and how it's in anyone's strategic interests to risk another extremists islamic state is beyond me.

Biden, what a crashing disappointment he's turned out to be.

I'm sad to see most of my Democrat leaning American friends completely silent about this.

I really don’t like way framing getting UK citizens out and “stepping up” ways get translators out. Sounds very much like well we leaving them behind to get killed. Why can’t they get everyone out who’s been working with us.

That's exactly what we are doing. The US has clearly accepted the creation of a Taliban led state and aims to do business man to man with it.

Yes IMHO they should try and get everybody out who had connections (direct and close family) with the UK…however given the rate at which things are falling apart that might simply not be possible….once you’ve lost control of the roads (which it’s rumoured has happened) then you’ll be limited by airlift capacity and how long any such operation will be allowed to continue.

Its not governments that are interpreting a religion to be something it isn't!

@charliebrown59

The only 'justification' is that apparently most of the American public are behind it, as they don't care about the rights of women and children in Afghanistan.

Regardless of what we thought about the intervention, the air support was easily continuable and how it's in anyone's strategic interests to risk another extremists islamic state is beyond me.

Biden, what a crashing disappointment he's turned out to be.

I'm sad to see most of my Democrat leaning American friends completely silent about this.

Alot of people knew what Biden was about before he was elected but they were labelled many disgusting names or simply trump supporters 🙄

Don't know why people expected anything different with the Democrats at all.