Noel Clarke sexual harassment allegations, suspended by BAFTA

[Cwenthryth]

www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/apr/29/actor-noel-clarke-accused-of-groping-harassment-and-bullying-by-20-women

🤬🤬🤬

Especially galling that BAFTA was seemingly made aware of this before giving him his very recent honour. I watched his acceptance speech and found it really moving in terms of celebrating a working class black man’s success in a historically white industry. Turns out he’s an (alleged) sexual abuser. Fucking great.

@Piggywaspushed

But acting is his workplace. If a teacher/lawyer/supermarket manager / medic/ insert role here was accused of sexual assault or harassment, they would be suspended until further notice. This is not any different.

Not every workplace, there’s still plenty of industries where you learn reporting sexual assault or harassment gets the woman labelled difficult and her professional reputation trashed.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

And the fact that you're wavering on if TWI HUNDRED of Saville's victims are telling the truth tells me all I need to know - if you were a police officer I pity any woman who had to have you turn your at her door after being assaulted. Were you the type to ask a woman if she maybe led him on, like my friend did after being raped by her date to the point her anus needed stitching?

If you read a bit more carefully you will see I wasn't a police officer, I was a civilian in a large force.

I don't know any police officers who would have said that to your friend but as I said I worked with some great officers. In our force potential victims, male or female were always treated well but that doesn't mean officers didn't investigate. You don't just walk into a police station and say X raped me and they rush off and put him in prison. There is a process which starts with listening to the victim and moves on to gaining evidence and then court.

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@ancientgran I don't think any of my male colleagues would be worried about being in a car alone with a 10yo girl lest they be accused of abuse. If they I'd I'd be steering clear of them.

If this teacher you speak of was cleared then he could have gone back into teaching. He didn't go to jail. Some gossiping mums may speculate and embellish about him but that's not a 'ruined life'.

Can I tell you what does ruin lives - being sexually assaulted[/quote]
Are you serious?! I don’t know any male in a professional role who would be alone in a car with minor child. Of either sex. Most safeguarding policies and safeguarding training stresses that this is a total no no. In fact the same applies to women. We are told never to be alone with a child if at all possible and if we are to prop doors open, ensure someone else is around, etc. I have had to ring and find another adult to accompany me when it was unavoidable once to drive a child home.

I also had the same feeling after reading that whole article.It’s an addiction to sex but in a very extreme way. I’m trying to understand it but can’t. It’s awful but also intriguing.

It's not an addiction to sex; it's an addiction to power, which is totally different. If it were the former, there would be stories about Clarke visiting prostitutes / having affairs / cheating on his wife. The allegation are about Clarke revelling in his power (as writer / producer / director / screenwriter) over women's bodies and careers.

allegations not allegation

@ancientgran there is a serious problem with misogyny in the police and the way victims are treated and it's very well documented so I'd be amazed if you never once saw any officer behaving in a way that caused concern.

Then again IME they all stick together to the bitter end

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@ancientgran because when 99% of sexual predators walk free, why the actual hell should women tolerate the "innocent til proven guilty" BS? I'd say it's more important that victims are able to stop a perpetrator in his tracks don't you?

Which men have killed themselves due to false allegations?[/quote]
This is the first one that came up when I googled it, there are more www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1280926/Student-cleared-rape-emerges-second-man-committed-suicide-falsely-accused-woman.html.

Would you expect your father/brother/husband/son to have the right to defend themselves if a false allegation was made?

I think both matter, I don't want women to be assaulted and I don't want men to get away with it and at the same time I don't want innocent men to be convicted wrong in a real court or the court of public opinion. It is possible to believe both.

Agreed disillusioned. Including many of the ones I named. Just making a point that some posters don't seem to accept suspension us not finding someone guilty before trial.

I know a teacher that was outed for certain actions by one of those awful websites. Awful for him but he still needed to be suspended and face due process.

@justawoman I'm referring to if they were taking their child's friend home like ancient described. There's nothing to say that teachers can't ever be alone with any other children, otherwise I should lose my job based on the fact I take drive my nephew about just us 2 sometimes

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@ancientgran there is a serious problem with misogyny in the police and the way victims are treated and it's very well documented so I'd be amazed if you never once saw any officer behaving in a way that caused concern.

Then again IME they all stick together to the bitter end[/quote]
I said there was one police woman I worked with who was very unsympathetic to women, I have no idea why.

One young officer made the mistake of saying "You can't rape a prostitute." And the DCI made mincemeat of him in front of the whole team. I worked with the vice squad so a special team who were very experienced and well trained.

False accusations of sexual offences run at the same rate of false accusations of all crime - around 1-2%. We rarely see media coverage of false accusations of any other crime though, so if someone tells us they were burgled we tend to believe them.

The Victims’ Commissioner, Vera Baird QC, has said that the conviction rate for rape is so low that it’s essentially decriminalised.

What do some posters think the law will make of these accusations? Bullying? When did you last see someone convicted in court of bullying? Sending a dick pic? Where are the men in the dock over that? But people lose their jobs over this sort of thing, after workplace investigations (not jury adjudication). The Guardian article did a more thorough job than most HR functions can. Yes, some of his behaviour was criminal, but a court is not the only way to deal with it, and almost certainly not the best one.

You realise that innocent men have committed suicide due to false allegations.

I don't know of any personally but I'm sure it happens.

It's a little like saying "well men get hit too" in reference to domestic abuse.

There's no question that there can be male victims in these cases. But it's a matter of priority. Why, when this many women have come forward with such disturbing allegations, do we have to #notallmen it? Every time? Can't we just focus on the victims? Do we have to have this argument. There is no argument from me that some men get ruined by this behaviour - so let's start by believing women, not casting doubt, not entering into the whole 'oh but women lie' nonsense that every rapist out there benefits from.

I would like to see a cultural shift. It has not yet happened in the justice system.

Can you please, kindly, not derail this thread? Out of respect for many women out there who are finding all of this very upsetting for personal reasons. Please?

Still not sure what the point of pulling his shows is though. Penalises swathes of innocent people who will have worked hard.

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]**@justawoman* I'm referring to if they were taking their child's friend home like ancient* described. There's nothing to say that teachers can't ever be alone with any other children, otherwise I should lose my job based on the fact I take drive my nephew about just us 2 sometimes [/quote]
So do you think being a friends dad means you are safe from allegations? That is incredibly naive. I imagine most men in jobs like teaching/medicine/police would be just as wary off duty as on.

@Numnumcookie

Always hated this prick and could never explain why. It's the strongest reaction I've ever had against a celebrity I do not know and have no evidence against. Just thought he was bad news. I'm not surprised in the slightest.

Me too

Just never warmed to him, always felt like he couldn't be trusted and it spoilt anything he was in for me

@ancientgran the person in that link did not get declared innocent - the verdict was not guilty and as someone who worked in the police I expect you know that "not guilty" is NOT a declaration of innocence

If my brother or son was accused - be it CIA the media because he's famous enough to warrant a story in the newspaper or via the authorities - yes I'd expect him to be able to clear his name or have his say but I would never stoically say the justice system was the only way. Because I also have a daughter and I identify HER right to be believed.

Campaign for changing the system . The media are not Gods
Campaign? Why? You clearly think these women should have relied on the ‘system’. Surely you couldn’t think that, whilst also thinking the system is flawed and stacked against them, because that would just be nuts, right?
And Lucy Osborne and Sirin Kale are not the ‘media’ they’re investigative journalists, remember them? It’s not the side bar of shame ffs.

What was he worried about? Are you serious? Ask male teachers how they feel about being alone in a car with a child and I'm sure they will explain the risks. They know them and so do police officers. I'm surprised a teacher doesn't understand the risks

How many schoolchildren make false accusations of sexual abuse against their teachers? You make it sound as though it is a common occurrence.

I respect the law and it is all we have.

My ex worked in the criminal justice system and every time there was a rape report on the news he would say how the women were "liars and just doing it for attention or revenge - I've seen it so many times". Out of all the men who sexually harrassed or assaulted me he was the only one who raped me.

When you see how many successful convictions there are for rape and sexual assault, do you really respect the law in this regard? Or do you think the accused were innocent and the accusers were making it up? These are the ones that are reported in the first place ...

And, as for the whataboutthemenz style, “What if your son was falsely accused of rape?” In 2021 it is still far more likely that my daughter, (and nineteen of her friends) will be sexually harassed, assaulted or even raped and still not be believed. So I know where my focus is thanks.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

I'm amazed to read the rapists of many sex workers were tried and convicted.

But they were. I would have thought every woman would be glad even though not everyone is sympathetic about prostitutes.

In response to the "what about men who commit suicide from being unfairly accused?"

I'd say, what about the women and girls who commit suicide after harassment, sexual assault and rape, and after not being believed, and after being told the CPS won't take their case to court? What about ALL those wonen?

The degree of "what about the poor menz" I'm reading on here is pretty sickening.

What about women and girls?

So do you think being a friends dad means you are safe from allegations? That is incredibly naive. I imagine most men in jobs like teaching/medicine/police would be just as wary off duty as on.

I think if a man is worried about his DD's friend making false accusation - which are so rare they're practically negligible - it says A LOT more about him than anyone else. What a disservice to little girls. The assumption is they'll lie - again, strong evidence this is rare - for the sole reason 'she's a girl and that's what girls do'. No I do not subscribe to the depressing "naive" stance that men shouldn't give lifts to girls who aren't their daughters

@Orgasmagorical

I respect the law and it is all we have.

My ex worked in the criminal justice system and every time there was a rape report on the news he would say how the women were "liars and just doing it for attention or revenge - I've seen it so many times". Out of all the men who sexually harrassed or assaulted me he was the only one who raped me.

When you see how many successful convictions there are for rape and sexual assault, do you really respect the law in this regard? Or do you think the accused were innocent and the accusers were making it up? These are the ones that are reported in the first place ...

The law isn't perfect but do you think lynch mobs are better. We need to work to improve the system not decide we don't need it because people have a funny feeling about someone and always knew there was something about him. That is a really dangerous way to go.

Colouringindoors and all the women who are forever changed by the actions of some vile man.

But yes, let's centre the male. As usual.

Sickening behaviour.