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Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Noel Clarke sexual harassment allegations, suspended by BAFTA

878 replies

Cwenthryth · 29/04/2021 20:41

www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/apr/29/actor-noel-clarke-accused-of-groping-harassment-and-bullying-by-20-women

🤬🤬🤬

Especially galling that BAFTA was seemingly made aware of this before giving him his very recent honour. I watched his acceptance speech and found it really moving in terms of celebrating a working class black man’s success in a historically white industry. Turns out he’s an (alleged) sexual abuser. Fucking great.

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Unsure33 · 30/04/2021 19:02

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

We are agreeing .

All I am saying is we need to change the system and I appreciate what you are saying . But I still believe trial by Media is wrong .

If mumsnet is supposed to bring women together to change things then that’s what should happen .

In this particular industry young vunerable people need to be protected and having a way to safely report problems .

Defaultname · 30/04/2021 19:02

God, the people who run that organization have been complete baftas.

bonfireheart · 30/04/2021 19:03

Does anyone know what happens next...like is the Guardian investigation enough for the police to look into him or do the women have to go to the police themselves and ask them to investigate?

Alsohuman · 30/04/2021 19:04

@bonfireheart

Why is he getting psychological help if he's done nothing wrong?
Seriously? You think the only people who need psychological help are criminals?
bonfireheart · 30/04/2021 19:05

Did I say he was criminal?
Seriously?

Fernlake · 30/04/2021 19:05

"Within hours, Bafta was contacted jointly by three industry figures alerting it to the existence of several allegations of verbal abuse, bullying and sexual harassment against Clarke.

In a letter, they wrote they had each heard “first-hand” accounts of sexual misconduct and abuse of power against Clarke, a leading actor, director, screenwriter, and producer. Information about other allegations followed, including two anonymous emails and information passed to a Bafta board member, via an intermediary, about an incident in which a woman alleged Clarke had been threatening and abusive towards her after she rejected his advances.

Clarke, whose management had also received anonymous emails, vehemently denied the accusations and suggested to Bafta they were malicious."

I'm not sure how anyone can think all these individual accusations are a big conspiracy to bring the man down because each woman had her own personal vendetta.

It doesn't make any sense at all.

He's also said that no complaints have ever been made about him. Which is a complete lie.

I support the innocent until proven guilty concept. In court.

My own personal opinion is that he is a misogynist who couldn't give a shit about women's boundaries. I mean, it's not as though this is in any conceivable way unusual.

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 30/04/2021 19:06

@ancientgran no it isn't ok what happened to Cliff Richard and Christopher Jeffries - but both men very much cleared their names afterwards and AFAIK have not had their careers affected. The Levinson inquiry very much called the press out on how they reported on Jefferies and the former was a grave act of misconduct on behalf of the BBC. I don't anyone thinks they're guilty.

Can you answer please if you believe Saville was innocent? He was never so much as charged with anything

Doomsdayiscoming · 30/04/2021 19:06

@bonfireheart

Does anyone know what happens next...like is the Guardian investigation enough for the police to look into him or do the women have to go to the police themselves and ask them to investigate?
Well, he’s a man.

He’ll take the easy way out.

Ohchristmastreeohchristmastree · 30/04/2021 19:10

‘Ohchristmastreeohchristmastree
I never liked him (like a few other posters on here), now I know why. Something was always off with him.
This kind of thinking is dangerous. Yes trust your instincts, but so many people who do abhorrent things appear perfectly normal, are well-liked, and don't set any radar off. That's how they are able to hide in plain sight and get away with their crimes for so long. People made similar comments to yours when Jimmy Saville was exposed. It might make you feel better to think you can tell who is good or bad, but the reality is we have no way of telling.’

Maybe. I think my comment earlier was a bit flippant (was meant to be working).

But I do get feelings about people that have later been proved right over time. I think you can absolutely trust your gut on these things. And to an extent I don’t want to go around not being able to trust anyone just because they might be abusive manipulative covert shits.

I do agree however that some people are very good at wearing a mask. But I also think it’s a little black and white to think that people have absolutely no way of telling the good from the bad.

A lot of these people get away with what they do, not because people think they are normal and nice, but because say are able to manipulate people, play on their weaknesses and ultimately frighten people enough to be able to get away with it.

AngelicaSchuylerAndHerSisters · 30/04/2021 19:10

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop if you look at my earlier post, I said the media has done an amazing job breaking major stories such as Weinstein etc and we should be grateful to them. I added the update about Cliff Richard to admit that sometimes mistakes are made - but never because a group of women has got together to lie.

ancientgran · 30/04/2021 19:12

[quote Unsure33]@ancientgran

I don’t think it’s even about those who are innocent and are publicly tried by media .

It’s about changing the system so that victims can come forward and be believed .

That should be the aim .... not congratulating the papers .

Can you imagine posters here if their sons were even accused about sharing indecent photos and it was all over social media they would be up in arms whether guilty or innocent .[/quote]
I was very lucky with the police officers I worked with, actually the only officer I worked with who was unsympathetic to women coming in to make a complaint was a woman.

I was a civilian in a busy police station in an area with a big vice problem. Prostitutes making complaints of rape were treated with respect and I worked on a big investigation where a number of prostitutes were raped and the perpetrators were caught and convicted.

We also had a couple of cases where prostitutes were murdered and they were investigated just the same as any other murder. I was amazed when I watched a programme about the Yorkshire Ripper and saw how the police, well some of them, regarded his victims.

Having said that we did have one nightmare false allegation, teenage girl caught in compromising position by dad and immediately screamed rape. If dad was in the interview room she maintained it was rape, if dad left she admitted it wasn't. Took hours of officers time to sort that one out.

So I believe the police should always listen, always investigate but not jump to conclusions until they have all the facts.

colouringindoors · 30/04/2021 19:12

20 women. Whose stories the Guardian clearly investigated. And whose lawyers wouldn't have let them print without being totally confident they wouldn't get sued for libel.

And women are STILL saying, oh but they're just allegations.

ENOUGH NOW!!!

Pinkearedcow · 30/04/2021 19:13

@ancientgran in the case you outline of the teacher, there is no way he could have been allowed to keep teaching until the allegations were disproven. It's harsh on an innocent man, but the children had to be protected. I think it is the same here, this man cannot be allowed to be in a position of power over young women.

Tiddlywinkly · 30/04/2021 19:14

Does anyone know any of the incidents happened in London nightclubs?

colouringindoors · 30/04/2021 19:15

Obviously it’s deeply disgusting behaviour. But why would an intelligent successful person think they could get away with it?

Because men can, and do get away with this every single day.

Because he, in all likelihood, has been getting away with it for decades.

LilacTwine · 30/04/2021 19:16

colouringindoors and a link to a youtube video of him rubbing his genitals against a woman on TV, without her consent.

Exactly. Enough. Always the excuses when women dare to speak up.

Always with the victim blaming. I believe them. Every single one of them. They have nothing to gain from this except hoping he stops and is made to face up to what he's very clearly done.

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 30/04/2021 19:17

It can. I know a teacher, well not personally but he was local, he upset some girls at school and they decided to make allegations. I remember people saying, "Well it must have happened, it's not just one girl complaining." Another woman with a child in his class said, "They were told off that day for misbehaving and they've cooked this up."

They were 10 year olds and in the end it came out it was all lies. He had been suspended and under suspicion for months while this all went on and by the time his name was cleared he was so unwell he couldn't go back to teaching and took early retirement.

It might be rare, I've no idea, but it can happen.

ancientgran I'm a teacher. When 10yo girls accuse a teacher of something inappropriate of course he has to be suspended and investigated. The alternative is that he stays on, on the assumption children are lying, and if he is an abuser he gets to continue his abuse whilst also teaching his victims. How else do you think it should be dealt with?

As teachers we are trained to ensure very little risk of false accusations are made - for example minimal 1-2-1 contact and propping doors open when alone with pupils. We also have to accept that as part and parcel of the job, if we get an allegation, even a false one, we must not teach until we are investigated. There's no other way to do it.

I assume this is all gossip anyway and not published in the local paper? If he was cleared I'd be very surprised if they published anything

My husband was a police officer, he would never give DDs friends a lift home, I always had to do it. He said it was too risky and I think he was probably right.

Hmm bit weird. What was he worried about?

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 30/04/2021 19:19

I'm amazed to read the rapists of many sex workers were tried and convicted.

ancientgran · 30/04/2021 19:19

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@ancientgran no it isn't ok what happened to Cliff Richard and Christopher Jeffries - but both men very much cleared their names afterwards and AFAIK have not had their careers affected. The Levinson inquiry very much called the press out on how they reported on Jefferies and the former was a grave act of misconduct on behalf of the BBC. I don't anyone thinks they're guilty.

Can you answer please if you believe Saville was innocent? He was never so much as charged with anything[/quote]
I don't know, the allegations have never been tested in court. The amount of evidence makes it likely that it is all true but I don't know and as he is dead I don't waste time thinking about it.

Innocent people do have their lives ruined, Cliff Richard and Christopher Jefferies did clear their names but who knows if they have ever fully recovered and how many people still think "There's no smoke without fire."

Jaycee Dugard was abducted by a stranger and held for 18 years, the police and many others believed it was her step father. He lost his wife and his home because people just knew.

I respect the law and it is all we have.

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 30/04/2021 19:21

@ancientgran and rapists and sexual predators go on to have flourishing careers

Mike Tyson
Donald Trump
Mel Gibson
Casey Affleck
Mark Wahlberg
Boy George
Michael Jackson

I can think of dozens more.

So what's your point?

ancientgran · 30/04/2021 19:22

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

It can. I know a teacher, well not personally but he was local, he upset some girls at school and they decided to make allegations. I remember people saying, "Well it must have happened, it's not just one girl complaining." Another woman with a child in his class said, "They were told off that day for misbehaving and they've cooked this up."

They were 10 year olds and in the end it came out it was all lies. He had been suspended and under suspicion for months while this all went on and by the time his name was cleared he was so unwell he couldn't go back to teaching and took early retirement.

It might be rare, I've no idea, but it can happen.

ancientgran I'm a teacher. When 10yo girls accuse a teacher of something inappropriate of course he has to be suspended and investigated. The alternative is that he stays on, on the assumption children are lying, and if he is an abuser he gets to continue his abuse whilst also teaching his victims. How else do you think it should be dealt with?

As teachers we are trained to ensure very little risk of false accusations are made - for example minimal 1-2-1 contact and propping doors open when alone with pupils. We also have to accept that as part and parcel of the job, if we get an allegation, even a false one, we must not teach until we are investigated. There's no other way to do it.

I assume this is all gossip anyway and not published in the local paper? If he was cleared I'd be very surprised if they published anything

My husband was a police officer, he would never give DDs friends a lift home, I always had to do it. He said it was too risky and I think he was probably right.

Hmm bit weird. What was he worried about?

Yes of course he had to be suspended but my point was false allegations can ruin lives. It was in the local paper.

What was he worried about? Are you serious? Ask male teachers how they feel about being alone in a car with a child and I'm sure they will explain the risks. They know them and so do police officers. I'm surprised a teacher doesn't understand the risks.

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 30/04/2021 19:23

And the fact that you're wavering on if TWI HUNDRED of Saville's victims are telling the truth tells me all I need to know - if you were a police officer I pity any woman who had to have you turn your at her door after being assaulted. Were you the type to ask a woman if she maybe led him on, like my friend did after being raped by her date to the point her anus needed stitching?

ancientgran · 30/04/2021 19:24

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@ancientgran and rapists and sexual predators go on to have flourishing careers

Mike Tyson
Donald Trump
Mel Gibson
Casey Affleck
Mark Wahlberg
Boy George
Michael Jackson

I can think of dozens more.

So what's your point?[/quote]
My point is why not wait until something gets to court and a legal decision is made. You realise that innocent men have committed suicide due to false allegations.

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 30/04/2021 19:24

@ancientgran I don't think any of my male colleagues would be worried about being in a car alone with a 10yo girl lest they be accused of abuse. If they I'd I'd be steering clear of them.

If this teacher you speak of was cleared then he could have gone back into teaching. He didn't go to jail. Some gossiping mums may speculate and embellish about him but that's not a 'ruined life'.

Can I tell you what does ruin lives - being sexually assaulted

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 30/04/2021 19:26

@ancientgran because when 99% of sexual predators walk free, why the actual hell should women tolerate the "innocent til proven guilty" BS? I'd say it's more important that victims are able to stop a perpetrator in his tracks don't you?

Which men have killed themselves due to false allegations?