Use of 'Karen' as a slur

[HDDD]

3 times in the last few days I've seen this and it irks me every time. I naively thought it was a short-lived thing and had faded out...clearly not. Is anyone else still seeing it? Are you calling people out when you see it? Or am I in a minority of one at getting annoyed by it?

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

The term "Witch Hunt" comes to mind. It's corporate, I'm literally a needle in the haystack, like I'd tell anyway. The irony is, is that your irrational demands of "I want to find out where you work, so I can take my business else where." is text book example of the behaviour the term is used for.

So you write highly insulting things, to the point of saying you use a real woman's name in place of 'bitch', writing completely misogynist things, and yet it's us who are witch hunting you? Wow. That is practically a textbook example of gaslighting.

*There's a great article in Indy"
not sure this could ever be true

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

I grew up with my mum and her friends casually calling people 'Slapper' and 'Slag' in earshot of the kids. She also used to call me a 'bitch' on a regular basis, 90% of the time not as an endearment. Words have lost their shock value to me.

Sure

Replace the word Karen with something else and you can see what it really means. Because you can't replace it and get the same level of vitriol it carries unless you say something like "bitch" or "cunt".

Its a new nasty way of insulting women and it doesn't just mean one typical woman anymore, its any type of woman who complains about anything, and it doesn't get applied to men.

Any woman on here who uses it, you're not doing any of us any favours.

And I write as an autistic woman who's had her share of problem customers in the past.

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

I grew up with my mum and her friends casually calling people 'Slapper' and 'Slag' in earshot of the kids. She also used to call me a 'bitch' on a regular basis, 90% of the time not as an endearment. Words have lost their shock value to me.

Your mother's appalling behaviour is no justification for use of misogynistic language.

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

The term "Witch Hunt" comes to mind. It's corporate, I'm literally a needle in the haystack, like I'd tell anyway. The irony is, is that your irrational demands of "I want to find out where you work, so I can take my business else where." is text book example of the behaviour the term is used for.

Not really. I would not want to give you business because you think it's ok to call women bitches, cunts and cows.

I think we should reclaim Karen and wear it proudly. Did you see the video of the woman who followed the rapist who abducted and assaulted a teenager in Colliers Wood? She was so brave to confront him, and not just mind her own business. Who knows what further ordeal the girl would have suffered without her intervening.

I think Karens are mostly a force for good. Without Karens, there would be no arts sector in the UK - we support theatres, galleries, etc way more than other demographic groups. We have life experience. We are not easily intimidated. The Karen meme is an attempt to silence us, demean us.

@ArabellaScott

CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans. So you use 'Karen' as a more polite way of saying 'bitch', 'cunt' and 'obnoxious cow'?

How caring and progressive. Customer service maybe not the right choice of career for you.

Excellent post. And very funny. 😂

We do need a word to moan about entitled rude customers, sure. Maybe some further refinements if they are young black males, or old white females or vice versa, because those people are really annoying.

Was this a piss-take, or are you serious? Do you really need A WORD for your categories?

We don’t need A WORD to moan about rude, entitled customers. The words rude and entitled will suffice.

We don’t need A WORD for rude, entitled customers who are young black males. The words rude and entitled will suffice.

We don’t need A WORD for rude, entitled customers who are old white females. The words rude and entitled will suffice.

We have all the words we need. Rude, entitled, customers.

Fucking hell.

@ShagMeRiggins

We do need a word to moan about entitled rude customers, sure. Maybe some further refinements if they are young black males, or old white females or vice versa, because those people are really annoying.

Was this a piss-take, or are you serious? Do you really need A WORD for your categories?

We don’t need A WORD to moan about rude, entitled customers. The words rude and entitled will suffice.

We don’t need A WORD for rude, entitled customers who are young black males. The words rude and entitled will suffice.

We don’t need A WORD for rude, entitled customers who are old white females. The words rude and entitled will suffice.

We have all the words we need. Rude, entitled, customers.

Fucking hell.

In an AIBU argument I suggested that all other objections aside (of which there are plenty) "bitch still isn't a good word to use as it tells you nothing about the behaviour. I was told of course it is, as we all know what "bitchy behaviour " is.Well I don't.

Rude , entitled, obnoxious, arrogant, patronising, false superiority, dismissive, sneering, bullying etc. etc tell you all you need to know. As you say the only noun required is "customer".

DidoLamenting, indeed, customer, or client.

We have the nouns and we have the adjectives in our language. No other categories need to be created, especially not in a lazy or “othering” way.

Frankly, I’d like to see less shorthand/jargon used on FWR, but that’s a different thread.

Offs half you lot would fight with your toenails.

A word or words if you like, to describe a discrete cluster of unpleasant behaviour with maybe further refinements to specify the demographic, if you deem it relevant, which in a public facing role you just might need to. That is ok.

Discrete clusters of unpleasant behaviours exist, whether you use one short word or several long ones to describe it.

So let people moan if they need to, fgs.

What's not ok is using someones given name as an insult, it's horrible for those people. Sometimes you see racists online sneering at Jamals and the like, or reverse snobs sneering at Tarquin and Jocasta. It's horrible for the real life people.

What's also not ok is applying an insult to someone who doesn't deserve it. Which is what's happening to middle aged white women with an opinion.
The meme just gives the cover of humour to someone who has no respect for this group anyway. The sneering attitude was there already and that's the problem.

When I worked in a customer-facing job, we called customers like that Mr or Mrs Angry.

I grew up with my mum and her friends casually calling people 'Slapper' and 'Slag' in earshot of the kids. She also used to call me a 'bitch' on a regular basis, 90% of the time not as an endearment

I'm sorry you experienced such abuse as a child, I can understand why you have such a negative attitude to older women and you've absorbed a misogynistic POV.

Maybe a forum where women share strong female centred views is not the most comfortable place for you.

That and my 'parenting' was not so good. It lead me to believe unconditional love can only come from animals; its one of the reasons I chose to be Childfree and surround myself with my rescue Pigeons. I mainly came on here to defend trans rights as my partner is a trans woman who has experienced a lot of abuse online since a certain someone emboldened the transphobes. My parents also changed their priorities when my sister was born when I was 14 to the point of neglect. I wouldn't say I'm a mysoganist, I just don't care about swearing, I do it a lot. When I or my partner say something snarky I'll say "Oh I'm/you're r such a bitch." in a camp way. I'm a misanthrope, I don't really like being around people, you might say that's bad for someone dealing with customers, but most of the people at my work are. I think I have some dysphoria regarding my gender, I hate being seen as a women first above all else as opposed to a person who does/likes anything else. It's probably why I was attracted to gothic clothes and continue to dress so. I've applied for therapy but with current events that's on standby.

Mumsnet can be a very kind and supportive space. There are lots of boards for help with mental health, abuse, etc and you may well find spaces here that can offer advice and support for your problems. Try the 'Talk' tab at the top and have a browse.

Generally speaking, though, coming on the feminist board and using misogynistic slurs like 'cunt' or 'Karen' (trust me, they are misogynist, even if you don't know) and suggesting Mumsnetters are 'transphobes' is not likely to meet with a warm welcome.

Most of the women on this board are here to discuss and defend women's rights.

Wishing you well.

My friend is Indian and her dad was called 'Raj/Sanjay' (not his name), based on his thick Indian accent by white people in the area. Is Karen worse than that?! How about calling Australian women 'Sheilas' or women from Essex Sharon/Tracy?

Yeah, it's all bad. You seem to understand the problem.

Would saying "Fuck off, Jamie" to the next wokey-blokey who gets my goat make me a bad person?

I hadn't noticed Karening until about a year ao, but now I keep encountering it. Not sure whether it is more prevalent or just that I am now sensitized to it.

As you were.

My daughter calls me it when I tell her off 🤷‍♀️ I also think the male version is Ken. Can’t say it bothers me as I’m not called Karen but can see how annoying it can be to people that are. I personally don’t know many

Elon Musk is a Karen now.

twitter.com/emmabell42/status/1327586649765769218?s=19

Looks like eventually it won't be a gendered insult.

Elon Musk is a Karen now.

Which makes as much sense as calling the likes of Piers Morgan the shortened version of "trans exclusionary radical feminist".

They don't even know how to use their new words.

I think what is missing from these (rather bad) takes is the nuance of class and race! “Karen” is not simply about being a woman, it’s almost exclusively used to refer to white, upper class, privileged women who feel it’s acceptable to behave in an entitled way.

No, it’s not upper-class women at all. Nor particularly privileged ones.

It’s “white middle-aged women made good” so a “jumped up” woman with hairdo, nice car, smart clothes and, yes, a “Do you know who I am?” attitude. Actually this type exists across all races.

What is new, however, is this slamming of the “Karen” label on any middle-aged woman who stands up for herself or who even enters a discussion that runs counter to the current “approved” narrative. The insult brands the woman as an irrelevant has-been who should “just leave” (as said by the young women on the BBC Sounds podcast).

It's any assertive woman or any person you think is unreasonable. The implication is that assertive women are always unreasonable.