Use of 'Karen' as a slur

[HDDD]

3 times in the last few days I've seen this and it irks me every time. I naively thought it was a short-lived thing and had faded out...clearly not. Is anyone else still seeing it? Are you calling people out when you see it? Or am I in a minority of one at getting annoyed by it?

[bluerad]

Same as being 'Wendied' - lots of threads on here about the terrible Wendy.

[ArabellaScott]

this sort of "men are always ruder/ no women are" is ridiculous.

Indeed. I was countering a vague anecdotal assertion with my own vague anecdotal experience.

As Helmet says above, makes much more sense to stick with the stats and evidence.

[DidoLamenting]

@ArabellaScott

this sort of "men are always ruder/ no women are" is ridiculous.

Indeed. I was countering a vague anecdotal assertion with my own vague anecdotal experience.

As Helmet says above, makes much more sense to stick with the stats and evidence.

The Karen meme isn't about crime - it's about rudeness/ entitlement etc so your point about crime statistics is just another way of saying men are worse, but is irrelevant to the Karen meme.

The Karen meme is offensive because apparently a woman being rude to a shop assistant is worse than a police officer killing an unarmed civilian as there isn't a meme for that.

[Thriwit]

NC for this!
I know I’m late to the party, but wanted to say that the “Karen” thing isn’t new, and doesn’t appear to be going anyway.
My real name is Karen, and ime the “Karen” thing has been going on for a good 3 years already. I’m also a millennial and definitely not middle class!

This thing has ground me down so much over the last couple of years that I’m now in the process of changing my name. I can’t take it any more - the frequent digs at me, the using my name to shut me up. It’s making me even more introverted and even more afraid to voice my opinion, because I always get my name thrown back at me and that’s that.

And constantly seeing “Karens aren’t welcome”, “Karens piss off”, “Death to Karens” etc etc. And any woman who does something bad is called a “Karen”.
I know it doesn’t mean me specifically, but after years of seeing it it’s setting into my brain.

Anyway, that’s my rant done. Glad I’ve got that off my chest.

[LordLancington]

so although 99% of terrorists, murderers, rapists, sexual abusers, extortionists, drug-dealers, bad law-mackers, environmental destroyers, etc are male, you feel its very important to remind people that some women arent as nice as youd like them to be and you'd like to continue putting forward your little anecdotes of women who werent lovely.

But come on, this is like saying that Western women shouldn't complain about anything because women in the Middle East have it worse off.

I've no desire to keep arguing. I'm just saying plenty of women are snide and put each other down and that's where the Karen meme came from.

But it's now become a pretty horrid mutation used against almost any woman and I do feel sorry for women like the one above.

[ArabellaScott]

Thriwit, that's such a shame. I'm really sorry.

[LordLancington]

And constantly seeing “Karens aren’t welcome”, “Karens piss off”, “Death to Karens” etc etc. And any woman who does something bad is called a “Karen”.
I know it doesn’t mean me specifically, but after years of seeing it it’s setting into my brain.

Similarly, I often feel like I need to apologise for being a straight white male, although I'm nothing like the rich privileged businessmen that inspired the meme.

[LordLancington]

One thing I was thinking about the other day was that memes are generally the reserve of the relatively young, or certainly the last few generations. It's statistically probable that the 'younger' women (i.e. under 40) who talk about the pay gap/male privilege etc will be outearning their male peers as young women have for decades.

I don't think we can necessarily assume that the young men will continue to overtake them at 40 as has happened in previous generations when we consider the widening rift between male/female graduates and the earnings trajectory - e.g. number of women earning >$60k rising rapidly and number of men earning

[ArabellaScott]

Right. You're here, in the feminist forum, on a thread about a misogynist meme, to remind us of the problems experienced by males.

And I bet you don't even realise how crass that is.

[Sweeetcornbananaf]

My 12 year old son came out with this a few months ago. I sat him down and I explained that you don’t use terms like that that-because it’s dehumanising. Then I explained that you don’t hear people going about saying “oh your such a John” it doesn’t happen for male names, so it’s also a dehumanising sexist insult so please don’t say it, because it makes you sound like a nasty sexist who wants to dehumanise any girl or woman who’s opinion you don’t like. He totally got it.

[LordLancington]

Right. You're here, in the feminist forum, on a thread about a misogynist meme, to remind us of the problems experienced by males.

And I bet you don't even realise how crass that is.

It’s a discussion forum. If you pop over to the dadsnet section you’ll plenty of female posters wading in.

I’m not talking about men in isolation. I’m comparing the Karen meme with other stereotypes.

[LockdownLump]

I've come back to this thread because I've been called a 'Karen' tonight. Why? Because I said I find it annoying that people are setting fireworks off 2 nights after bonfire night.

My sister also complained as she has a baby who wouldn't settle.

I have a dog who was shaking in fear.

We both put on the family chat that we were slightly irked by it.

One sister called us Karen's and another sister said she agrees that white privelege should be called out basically.

For moaning about fucking fireworks ffs. I'm a Karen.

I pointed out that Karen is no longer used in its original context and its now used to shut middle aged women up whenever they put their head above the parapet over ANY bloody issue they disagree with.

I was met with a gif of a man wearing a 'radical feminist' t-shirt.

Sorry if this was waffle, but it's put a shitty on my evening tbh.

I will call it out EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[LordLancington]

I never thought I’d say this, but I’m with you on the fireworks.

Love a good firework display but this year I noticed them going on well after 11pm and I’d forgotten how bloody loud some of them are. They were still going tonight too. Re the Karen thing, I also notice a lot of women using it. I think most don’t really view it as a man vs woman thing, it seems to be more a case of young women using it against older, or against those they see as ‘drama queens’.

[ShagMeRiggins]

it's put a shitty on my evening

I don’t know if this is a typo or some kind of regional expression, but it made me laugh. It’s perfect.

Sorry you were called a Karen. It’s such a weak response.

[IwishNothingButTheBestForYou2]

I'm loving "put a shitty" too.

[LockdownLump]

Not sure if it's regional or just an 'us' thing. If someone's in a mood and having a go at you for example, you would say 'don't get a shitty on with me' 🤣

Glad you both like it though haha.

[Helmetbymidnight]

so youre another one for whom the fact that karens in the uk are usually working class and/or often people have escaped you- and the fact they find it distressing.

this woman must be called a karen, arsehole, twat, obnoxious cow, rude, simply must not do. shes a karen.

[Helmetbymidnight]

*people of colour

[DidoLamenting]

but God forbid I call HER a Karen

Well it tells us nothing. "Your A wild Karen has appeared!" also tells us nothing.

You have seen on here examples of mild complaints in justified circumstances leading to accusations of being a "Karen" and the other extreme the behaviour you described.

It would have saved you about 5-10 seconds of typing if you had omitted the description of the behaviour.

And tell me, are male customers never rude or unreasonable?

I hope you're feeling better.

[DidoLamenting]

this woman must be called a karen, arsehole, twat, obnoxious cow, rude, simply must not do. shes a karen

I'm not fond of insults roping in blameless female animals and they suffer from the shortfall as "Karen" as they are too unspecific, but, here any of those epithets are far clearer than "Karen"

The working class in the UK thing puzzles me. I was at school with several Karens in a large country school so had children from all classes in its catchment area. One of the Karens I knew lived in a council house another lived in a huge Georgian farmhouse. I worked with a Karen whose family has an entry in Burke's peerage. I really don't see it as a working class only name and none of the Karens I know, including 3 in the office are working class.

[7Days]

Well you cant choose being called Karen, can you?
On that level it's like using Gay or Autistic as insults. A normal person wouldn't do it.

We do need a word to moan about entitled rude customers, sure. Maybe some further refinements if they are young black males, or old white females or vice versa, because those people are really annoying. But it shouldn't be a persons given name, and it shouldn't have this mission creep where anything you do as a middle aged white female gets you insulted.

[kness]

@DidoLamenting Totally agree. I don't know why so many people on here keep insisting that it's a working class name when it really isn't. In fact I'd say it's a pretty cross-class name that I wouldn't associate with any particular one. MN can be a weird place sometimes.

[CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans]

Yeah they do, usually grumpy, snappy old men who don't want to be bothered with our 'pampering' and who still think it's okay to hit their dogs. 'Gammon' types, if you will.

The thing is, Karen is just another way to say 'bitch', 'cunt' and 'obnoxious cow'. Hell, bitch and cunt received (and still do) backlash when first entering common lexicon. Now women have taken those words back, first time I heard 'cunt' was when my mum was describing her best friends new husband whom she didn't like, referring to him as a 'ginger cunt'. And we have Bitch magazine. Karen is a new generations 'bitch'

[CaraDuneRedux]

Crazy - customer facing jobs can be shit, because people can be shit.

But it still doesn't make it right to take a name and apply it to a whole demographic.

I find scurrilous anatomical or copralogical insults do well - "arsehole", "shitstain", possibly qualified with a suitable adjective, e.g "overly entitled arsewipe of a customer..."

And I too worry about "mission creep". The woman who ranted at you was indeed an overly entitled arsewipe of a customer. But any glance through twitter will show you that "Karen" has become synonymous with "middle aged woman having the temerity to have opinions of her own, even worse, feel that she can express those opinions and - oh my god the horror - have opinions which I disagree with."