3 times in the last few days I've seen this and it irks me every time. I naively thought it was a short-lived thing and had faded out...clearly not. Is anyone else still seeing it? Are you calling people out when you see it? Or am I in a minority of one at getting annoyed by it?
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Feminism: chat
GlummyMcGlummerson ·
06/11/2020 14:15
It's quite simply seen as a bona fide way for sexist and ageist people to have a pop at women, where they otherwise wouldn't be able to, and telling them to STFU.
It's meaning seems to have gone from "entitled person" to "Anyone who complains even if they get an unforgivably shit service". ExH called me a Karen because I complained about afternoon tea with a friend - we paid £35 each, got 1 scone, 4 sandwiches and a slice of stale cake, but I'm a Karen for complaining 
It's purpose is to disempower women and I always challenge it IRL when people say it
LordLancington ·
06/11/2020 20:35
It seems that you are making generalisations based on class, sex and age however in order to support using a women’s first name as a slur.
How am I in any way supporting it? 
I've already said above (twice I think) that I don't like it. What I'm doing is looking at the origin, which some don't seem to like as they'd rather try and imply men are to blame.
Amongst all the 'sisterhood' sentiment of feminism, many seem to ignore the fact that women are generally much crueler and passive aggressive towards one another than men. I was mildly shocked when I moved to a largely female team in my previous job. On the surface they all appeared to get on, but as I started going on lunch meetings with various combinations of them I realised how wrong I was. They had their distinct cliques and used to say some pretty derogatory things about each other in private. The most contempt seemed to be reserved for the colleague who extremely traditionally attractive and slim, who used to enjoy bantering with the men (who probably fancied her). The rest of the team were always putting her down and saying to each other how her £400 hair extensions were 'tacky' and made her 'look like a chav' etc.
This is all anecdotal but there's also a current thread on AIBU where a poster is saying how she finds satisfaction when misfortune befalls her friends (e.g. house purchase falling through, husbands cheating) and many seem to agree with her. There was also a thread a while back where women were talking about how unsupportive other females were at work, particularly in the legal sector where many were actively unhelpful to mothers and took a view that 'they should endure the sacrifices I had to'. Several studies were linked showing that women don't collaborate as well as men (and actually collaborate better with men than other women), that most women would rather have a male boss, and that women are less likely to help another woman the more senior at work she is to them.
I guess my point is that IME women seem to be much more jealous and belittling to each other, and that is likely partly the origin of the original Karen meme. Of course men still perpetrate the majority of atrocities but we're talking about day to day social interaction here rather than the minority of dangerous criminals.
ArabellaScott ·
06/11/2020 21:42
Oh, aye, all women are nasty and bitchy to each other.
Look, I've had any number of shitty menial jobs and I've also been a middle aged white woman. The customers who were arseholes to me? I'm sorry but it was blokes. Every time. Mostly sleazy, but also often arrogant, rude and just downright nasty. Every fucking time.
Maybe people notice women who speak up because it's so rare. And maybe women if a certain age start to care less what people think so are willing to speak up. Maybe, even, as these uppity women have started to glimpse economic and social parity they have started acting in what are traditionally seen as masculine ways.
We punish those who transgress social norms. We.punish women who don't comply. That's what this is, without a shadow of a doubt. You can try to dress it up as some kind of bullshit progressive call out thing - it's bullying women who don't submit. That's all.
DidoLamenting ·
06/11/2020 23:12
@ArabellaScott
Oh, aye, all women are nasty and bitchy to each other.
Look, I've had any number of shitty menial jobs and I've also been a middle aged white woman. The customers who were arseholes to me? I'm sorry but it was blokes. Every time. Mostly sleazy, but also often arrogant, rude and just downright nasty. Every fucking time.
Maybe people notice women who speak up because it's so rare. And maybe women if a certain age start to care less what people think so are willing to speak up. Maybe, even, as these uppity women have started to glimpse economic and social parity they have started acting in what are traditionally seen as masculine ways.
We punish those who transgress social norms. We.punish women who don't comply. That's what this is, without a shadow of a doubt. You can try to dress it up as some kind of bullshit progressive call out thing - it's bullying women who don't submit. That's all.
Look, I've had any number of shitty menial jobs and I've also been a middle aged white woman. The customers who were arseholes to me? I'm sorry but it was blokes. Every time. Mostly sleazy, but also often arrogant, rude and just downright nasty. Every fucking time.
Maybe people notice women who speak up because it's so rare. And maybe women if a certain age start to care less what people think so are willing to speak up. Maybe, even, as these uppity women have started to glimpse economic and social parity they have started acting in what are traditionally seen as masculine ways.
We punish those who transgress social norms. We.punish women who don't comply. That's what this is, without a shadow of a doubt. You can try to dress it up as some kind of bullshit progressive call out thing - it's bullying women who don't submit. That's all.
That might be your experience but these anecdotes about who is more unpleasant than whom are pointless and unhelpful.
There are unpleasant and rude people in all demographics.
FWR posters do, in my opinion have a rosy-tinted view of "sisterhood". Re Lamington's comment about offices I've never had to sort out squabbles amongst male staff, yet I have 2 female personnel who are regularly not speaking to each and attempt to rope in a third , blameless employee to back one or other of them in their squabbles. It means nothing other than I have 2 difficult female employees.
The Karen meme is awful. There is no equivalent for any other demographic. I have a very low opinion of anyone who uses it - and that includes posters on MN. There was a horrible AIBU thread recently where plenty of posters were defending it/ using it.
But this sort of "men are always ruder/ no women are" is ridiculous.
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