Use of 'Karen' as a slur

[HDDD]

3 times in the last few days I've seen this and it irks me every time. I naively thought it was a short-lived thing and had faded out...clearly not. Is anyone else still seeing it? Are you calling people out when you see it? Or am I in a minority of one at getting annoyed by it?

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans What's the name of your business?

Swearing at a vulnerable Autistic person and giving them a panic attack? That's fine, but God forbid I call HER a Karen

I haven't seen anyone here saying that ranting/swearing at others (whether vulnerable or not) is OK.

Calling out self entitled, rude, self centered behaviour by giving it a name might just make some revelauate how others will see their behaviour.

It won't. People who are rude and entitled won't be put off by the Karen meme. Rude and entitled people lack the self-awareness to realise they are rude and entitled. They're often the same people who use the meme about others.

What it will do is deter polite people who do worry about what others think from standing up for their reasonable rights.

There was a thread here a few days ago from a woman who was afraid to complain about her neighbours regularly making a racket until 3am because she 'didn't want to be a Karen'. A reasonable thing to complain about - also reasonable to worry about maintaining good relations with your neighbours, but the worry the poster had was that to say anything would make her a 'Karen'.

I find "gammon" almost as obnoxious as "Karen"- were "Gammon" an actual man's name then it would be just as unacceptable. But there isn't a male equivalent of "Karen" - the most you can come up with is "gammon".

So far as "bitch" - it's a horrible word. I would never use it to describe another woman- no matter how badly behaved. The same applies to "cow". Why rope in blameless female animals to describe obnoxious human behaviour?

Has "cunt" entered common lexicon?

@CaraDuneRedux

Crazy - customer facing jobs can be shit, because people can be shit.

But it still doesn't make it right to take a name and apply it to a whole demographic.

I find scurrilous anatomical or copralogical insults do well - "arsehole", "shitstain", possibly qualified with a suitable adjective, e.g "overly entitled arsewipe of a customer..."

And I too worry about "mission creep". The woman who ranted at you was indeed an overly entitled arsewipe of a customer. But any glance through twitter will show you that "Karen" has become synonymous with "middle aged woman having the temerity to have opinions of her own, even worse, feel that she can express those opinions and - oh my god the horror - have opinions which I disagree with."

Great post. I completely agree with your point about copralogical insults.

I was thinking about this, and don’t like the Karen thing. I can see the sort of person who was the inspiration for the insult, though, and there are male “Karens” too who are demanding and self-important.

People often used to call women of a certain demographic Sharons and Tracys, yet not much fuss was made about this. Perhaps it is that evil social media that has made insults so much more vicious . A Sharon was a young woman who wore white shoes and had a boyfriend with a Ford Capri. Now I suppose Sharons are all about 60. It was a bit of labelling, but the intention was not hate-loaded which the “Karen” insult seems to be.

It's not like middle aged women who had opinions were accorded respect and courtesy all along until this meme came about.

People have always been snide and eye rolly about women who won't shut up. The meme is just shorthand for longer insults that were in use anyway.

I dont like using a given name for it, not fair on real life Karen's, and an absolute nightmare for them in heated discussions, which are still not totally banned,I believe.

I often get a pang thinking of those fresh faced new mums and dads of the 70s, so hopeful and proud, thinking Karen is a fine, fitting name.
What a wuss, I know .

I've been guilty of using gammon, snowflake and boomer myself, to my shame.
It's just the most stupid thing, insulting someone instead of trying to understand their point of view.
Its a type of arrogance, the absolute certainty that one is, and can only be, in the right.

@IrmaFayLear

I was thinking about this, and don’t like the Karen thing. I can see the sort of person who was the inspiration for the insult, though, and there are male “Karens” too who are demanding and self-important.

People often used to call women of a certain demographic Sharons and Tracys, yet not much fuss was made about this. Perhaps it is that evil social media that has made insults so much more vicious . A Sharon was a young woman who wore white shoes and had a boyfriend with a Ford Capri. Now I suppose Sharons are all about 60. It was a bit of labelling, but the intention was not hate-loaded which the “Karen” insult seems to be.

Sharon probably had a boyfriend called Kevin (which is possibly where the poster insisting that "Kev" is a thing got the idea)

The labelling of Sharon, Tracey and Kevin was unpleasant and snobbish but it did not have the same level of viciousness that Karen has.

Yes, I suppose we might be guilty of saying, “John’s new girlfriend is a right Sharon” but it’s a snobby remark without venom. I’ve seen the Karen thing spat out with sneering vitriol.

Why do you want to know?

@Haworthia

It’s only gaining popularity from what I can see. It’s the face of socially acceptable misogyny and ageism. It’s a shortcut for “shut up, Woman of a Certain Age, how dare you have an opinion”.

Completely agree with this, it's pretty much "shut up woman"

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

Why do you want to know?

Because I don't want to give money to businesses who use my name as an insult, especially not the ones as extreme as you. It'll be a win-win situation as you clearly hate Karens anyway, so if you tell me the name of your shop then I'll be able to do you a favour by taking my business elsewhere. That is what you want, isn't it?

Yet again harassing the easily panicked autistic girl and taking the side of the asshole customer. Way to go from 1 to 100, it's this kind of rude, entitled behavior that gets to people.

You did say it was today that this incident happened in your salon, right? How odd, I didn't think such businesses were supposed to stay open during this lockdown. I wonder how many other closed shops are dealing with these awful customers today.

Pet groomers are allowed to stay open in England:

"Veterinary surgeons, animal rescue centres, boarding facilities and pet shops. Animal grooming facilities may also stay open but must only be used for the purposes of the animal’s welfare (and not for aesthetic purposes)."

Gov Uk.

Who says harassing people is fine?
Whether they're autistic or not is irrelevant. You dont ask for a list of someoones vulnerabilities before deciding whether to harass them. You just dont harass people.

What is also not fine, insulting middle aged women for standing up for themselves. Sometimes it needs to be done and it can be done assertively not aggressively.

Fine = grumbling about unpleasant customers.

Not fine = conflating unpleasant customers with middle aged women in general.

Fine. I'd still like to know the name of the shop then, so that I can do @CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans a favour by never inadvertently turning up at her workplace. After all, she did say how much she hates Karens so I wouldn't want to get in her way.

Also not fine = saying things like The thing is, Karen is just another way to say 'bitch', 'cunt' and 'obnoxious cow'.

So disappointing to hear such misogynist language being used as insults by other women.

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

Yet again harassing the easily panicked autistic girl and taking the side of the asshole customer. Way to go from 1 to 100, it's this kind of rude, entitled behavior that gets to people.

That's still not an excuse to use my name as an insult.

The thing is, Karen is just another way to say 'bitch', 'cunt' and 'obnoxious cow'.

I did feel my sympathy for CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans ebbing at that post.

CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans. So you use 'Karen' as a more polite way of saying 'bitch', 'cunt' and 'obnoxious cow'?

How caring and progressive. Customer service maybe not the right choice of career for you.

The term "Witch Hunt" comes to mind. It's corporate, I'm literally a needle in the haystack, like I'd tell anyway. The irony is, is that your irrational demands of "I want to find out where you work, so I can take my business else where." is text book example of the behaviour the term is used for.

I used the examples above to demonstrate, mainly because another poster offered them as alternates.

When customers are abusive staff don't just sit back and take it. They'll have a good old moan to the other staff when they've gone. It's closure.

My job isn't customer service, it's grooming dogs.

I grew up with my mum and her friends casually calling people 'Slapper' and 'Slag' in earshot of the kids. She also used to call me a 'bitch' on a regular basis, 90% of the time not as an endearment. Words have lost their shock value to me.