Insomnia friends - I will sleep well tonight because I have told my unconscious I will

[BeckyBendyLegs]

And here it is!

Actually DH is coming around to the idea of ADs as he sees that I need a bit of a break from this stress I am putting myself under. But I've been skepitcal about them too for ages and ages (partly because I felt so crap taking fluoxitine). I've learnt a lot more about them though and recently found out my niece has taken and is back on the same sort you and CountryLover take as she says she has had big anxiety and insomnia issues. She also said, interestingly, she's never had any problems coming off them (one of my worries).

I meant zopiclone OR diazepam - sorry

Not both!!

My DH snores too. I'm always poking him in the ribs!

I just feel so low today and anxious. I hate the fact that DH is at work, which is just silly. I can cope on my own fine normally. I don't know how to get rid of this feeling. I'm doing a bit of work at the moment which helps. My boss has asked if I want to help her do a short presentation in Oxford next week. Oh My God. Normally that would be exciting. Now I can't imagine anything more scary.

What?s the presentation on? Maybe you should do it!! Will provide a distraction from the ?S? word? and think of the sense of achievement and relief you will feel after you?ve done it! You?re right that work is probably helping right now. It is telling your unconscious that you can get on with normal life, so you are ok. If you stop everything, it raises alarm in your unconscious that all is not well.

Yes, you will feel low and anxious today because you are very tired. Try and just accept those feelings. I have become convinced that acceptance is a big part of getting over the anxiety. The more you own those feelings, the more they seem to ease. The harder you fight, the worse it gets (this was my experience anyway).

Well done for getting on with stuff today. Does DS seem sicky today or is he ok?

GetDown you are my voice of reason you really are sometimes. Perhaps I should just do it and a trip to Oxford would be lovely. We used to live there. And you're so right about fighting the insomnia and anxiety - it makes it worse. I feel a bit better now than I did first thing this morning. DS3 is on my lap smelling all lovely and going 'ahhrrr ahrrr huh huh arrr'. He's so cute

DS seems fine today - actually much more chirpy than he was yesterday. His friend has been throwing up for 24 hours now. I feel so sorry for him and his mum my friend who is not happy at the moment. Her other little boy had it the week before.

Oh do you really want to know what the presentation is on? I can paste her email here to you!!! It's basically about workflow for the online work I do:

The proposed meeting is to update all Assistent Commissioning Editors and other editorial staff involved with Oxofrd Scholarship Online on latest developments and to give another short and informal training session. It should be an opportunity to ask questions and raise any concerns.

The sessions will be run by Martin (OSO data team) and myself, (OSO content Manager).

If there is anything in particular you would like to see covered let me know. The sessions will look at:

• OSO workflow and procedures, what needs to be done, when and by whom
• illustrations and permissions
• revised Abstract and Keyword workflow

Oxford is so lovely. We were there on Saturday for a friends? 30th party ? didn?t get a chance to see the city but been there before and loved it. We nearly lived there too once, when DH went for a job in Didcot. I looked round Oxford whilst he had his interview and I had such a lovely day!

That?s right think positive ? of course you can do the presentation! (Tho am a bit about the topic ). I work in training as well, so organise a lot of training sessions. I just invigilated someone for their ECDL test this morning.

Cute little DS3 . Ahhh remind me of the good bits about having a baby!
Give him a little cuddle from me!

Well if DS1 hasn?t developed the bug yet it is highly unlikely he will get it!! YAY! Surely it would have come out by now if he was with this friend at the weekend.

The constant vomiting is grim though, isn?t it? When DD got it last year I got very fed up through it all (thank goodness I gave up on the idea of becoming a nurse!!)

DH thinks I should go but it is 2 hr 40 mins on a train! And what do I do about the three children? Ooooh not sure what to do.

We lived in Oxford for 4 years or so then in Charlbury near Oxford for 9 years and I loved it there, I was so happy there. We moved up here to Shropshire 20 months or so ago and although I like it I don't yet feel completely settled. I've been to Didcot a few times (in fact we also nearly moved there - DH found a house there he liked a lot when we were moving house once). There's a great railway museum there!

That's true about the bug but it's also going round the school.

I do feel a bit better now than I did first thing. I get myself in these awful, awful ruts. Do you really think ADs will stop me getting in such a tiss about sleep and getting so anxious about it when I have a bad few nights? I just want to sleep normally again and enjoy my little boys again without dragging myself through the bad days through the fog of sleep deprivation.

I'm still worried that the CMHT will try to persuade me to take SSRI type ADs. They seem so evil to me - do they really help some people? There's a poor woman with a thread about gagging on one of those type of ADs. There's no way I could carry on taking something making me feel so awful even if it is only for 2 weeks or so. And they all seem to have insomnia as a side-effect. That would send me over the edge, I know it would. But I'm not an expert, the CMHT people are the experts.

Anyway, time for lunch before getting DS2!

Well in that case you need to book yourself a lovely hotel for the night I usually sleep better away from home these days (didn?t always used to be the case!) ? comfy bed with none of the negative sleep associations and no snoring, no crying DCs ? ahh.

Surely DH can cope with the boys? Or would your mum have them during the day?

Yes, I really think ADs could help with your anxiety and stop a bad night ?escalating?. IMO there is no way you should take another SSRI. Do a bit of research beforehand and arm yourself with a list of them that you do not want to take. Ok, they might not appreciate a ?novice expert? (like me ) but this is your health, your sanity your body your side effects. There is no way I am ever taking an SSRI again.

I would suggest a tricyclic (abbr. to TCA) or tetracyclic (e.g. mirtazapine!)

SSRIs just seem to be too ?activating?. Also they gave me a terrible dry mouth which was awful.

Not all ADs have insomnia as a side effect. Have a read of this. I found this when I was first prescribed mirtazapine ? I printed it out and highlighted bits because I was practically phobic of trying another AD and this somehow helped me to take the step of actually swallowing the first pill. I was asleep on the sofa by 10pm (hardly ever happens).

There is hope. I was watching Dr Who last night with DH and it was an episode where Dr Who goes back in time to help Vincent Van Gough fight an invisible monster (DH is a big Dr Who fan - he makes me watch these things!). And at one point Van Gough was lying on his bed crying and in dispair about the whole point of life and all that and Dr Who gives him a hug and says 'In my experience, however bad things feel, there is always hope'.

Anyway, not sure why I am writing that. How do you feel about tomorrow? I think it is very exciting and I'm dying to know what sort of help they will be giving you.

DH says he will take a day off if I want to go to Oxford. Not sure! I waver between 'go for it' and 'I can't possibly go I am too fragile'.

There is indeed hope! That's a PST! Write it down!

I feel nervous about tomorrow. I think my biggest fear is them saying "there's nothing wrong with you it's all in your head".

The questionnaires all ask about your sleep in the past two weeks, and it's actually been not too bad in the past two weeks, so just looking at my answers it looks like I haven't really got much of a problem!

But as you know, it can be fine for a while you can think you are "cured" and then it all comes crashing down again and in some ways you feel as bad as you have ever done.

That's why I wanted to write down my story - to give them a bit of background. But it became a bit epic so now I'm worrying they'll think I'm a bit crazy!!

That's brilliant your DH is willing to take the day off! In that case I would grab the opportunity with both hands. Chances are you will be feeling much better by then anyway And I firmly believe in not letting the insomnia rule your life. I used to cancel seeing friends, cancel all my plans etc. when I was having a bad patch. I try not to do that now.

GetDown they won't think you are crazy. They will be amazed by your story, as I was, and think you have achieved a huge amount to get where you are today. You just want to make that last step really don't you? You want to see if there is anything you can do to prevent these anxiety bowts of insomnia you sometimes get when a stress comes up in your life and you also want some strategies for when you are pregnant, IF you get insomnia then and for after your baby is born, again IF you get insomnia. In a way also deciding to go to this sleep clinic has probably helped you sleep better! One of those weird ironies. Deciding to go the GP got me sleeping better, then I saw the locum and nothing much happened and I declined again! I'm hoping that now I've seen my regular GP and had the referral chased up my sleep will get better again.

I'm going to talk to DH later about Oxford. You are right really, I shouldn't let my worries about sleep stop me living as I used to.

I meant to also say: good luck for tomorrow I will be thinking of you. I hope it goes well.

thanks becky the appointment is 11:30.

Yes I think you're right, when you've made a deicion to get help it can sometimes help indirectly. Hopefully it will go ok.

How are you feeling, do you have a plan for tonight or are you just going to see how it goes? Honestly don't feel bad if you need to take something, it may just snap you out of the negative spiral...

Remember "if thoughts are part of the problem, then they can also be part of the cure" - I'm saying it to myself as well as to you!

x

GetDown good morning! I hope you slept well!

I slept ok. I didn't have a plan at all really.

I seem to be stuck in this hamster wheel of bad sleep, recovery sleep, struggled sleep, better sleep, yeah I'm better normal sleep, bad sleep'. I'm in the struggled sleep phase - ie I'm anxious but I do get to sleep at some point. I used the ipod, fell asleep, restless all night (dreamt I was buying a bridesmaid's dress for myself in Monsson for some reason - I have no weddings coming up!), but at least I slept in my own bed last night and not with DS3 leaving poor DH by himself.

Still waking up feeling anxious and all knotted up. This usually lasts for a 2-3 days... Ah well.

Anyway, lots and lots of luck for today if you see this before you go

Well.

I'm back.

Just trying to process it all really. It was very counter-expectations! In some good ways, in some bad ways.

Will write more in a bit, after my head has calmed down.

Intrigued by 'counter-expectations'!!!!

I'll look forward to hearing more later.

Harley Street is very posh. The whole street is large expensive converted houses, with huge front doors and golden polished plaques saying names of countless doctors. The whole street.

The sleep clinic was just one part of one of these very large houses.

Feeling very nervous this morning. Not a great night for me last night - woke up 3 times, and slept lightly. DH said I spoke in my sleep - something like "no that wouldn't be at all effective"

The tube was very hot and stuffy getting there, and felt very sticky when I arrived.

The clinic shared it's building with the Fetal Medicine Clinic as well. There was a lady in the waiting room on her mobile phone sobbing uncontrollably ...guess it was not good news ...

The doctor had read my "story". He shook my hand and said "you have a long story" . He then went on to say "I think every psychiatric trainee in the country should read this" Basically said it gave a very good insight into mental health services from the patient's perspective - things about the NHS that aren't done well, that contribute to a bad experience etc.

He is a trained psychiatrist who used to work in the NHS (so has experience) and has now specialised in sleep - so he knew his stuff.

I had had to complete loads of questionnaires beforehand. So he looks through all of these. Asks me a few questions etc. He said I had a very traumatic experience and all of the things I described contributed to the way I am now.

One of the main questions we had was "do you think my problem was the sleep or was it the depression?" (I certainly had both but my experience was that the sleep caused the other, not vice versa). Interestingly, he said it didn't matter which way round it happened (insomnia first or depression first) because they ARE BOTH CAUSED BY THE SAME AREA WITHIN THE BRAIN AND THE SAME NEUROTRANSMITTERS ARE INVOLVED!! So basically, the two are very closely linked. He said dopamine, serotonin etc all control mood AND sleep.

But the weirdest thing of all: he made his diagnosis based on what I had told him and my questionnaires. He diagnoses RESTLESS LEG SYNDROME . Never, never, never has the NHS asked me about this.

For a while now I have noticed an uncomfortable, twitching feeling in my legs during the evening - it has prevented me sitting comfortably for long periods, and is relieved by moving my legs. He said that this could be a MAJOR factor in my insomnia!! In addition, it is exacerbated by (get this) PREGNANCY, ADs, LOW IRON LEVELS and .... LITHIUM!!! So basically that just about describes me! And I have been taking things which make my legs worse!!

He said that Restless Leg Syndrome (RLS) is closely linked with anxiety, depression etc. because they involve similar parts of the nervous system. Can be treated with magnesium, muscle relaxants and other supplement type things (becky - note the magnesium!!)

He wants to send me for an over-night sleep study to confirm the RLS and check how my sleep wave patterns are affected! But that is big ££££!! I don't think I can do it! It's so much money!! And then he wants to send me on a sleep "re-programming" course!! Yet more ££££. We paid the £250 consultation fee but he then sent me for a blood test afterwards to check my iron and thyroid...

Had to pay for the blood test on my way out... £204!!! OMG I nearly fainted. I could not believe how expensive it was. DH said not to worry and we can afford it, but seriously? £204 for a blood test? I feel really guilty now. DH keeps telling me to forget the money but how can I?????

I am really stumped now, totally blown away. I don't know what to do. I am aware this treatment could really "sort me out". But I am also aware that we would basically be paying "celebrity prices" - also that they are a business and of course they are going to try and get as much money out of you as possible.

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH.

I just don't know what to do.

Getdown very excited for you that it may be RLS. All I can say is remember how you feel after bad night, multiply by the rest of your life and then think again about the money. Some things are worth so much.

But nothing stops you from taking the RLS diagnosis to your GP and see what happens.

Wow squared!!!!! No wonder you were a bit when you got back! RLS - I'm sure I've heard about that affecting sleep. I agree with WillSurvive the first thing to do is take that to your GP and says 'see, ha, what do you make of that?' and see what they say. Secondly, it is worth the money. Think how much money people spend on an extension to their house? Which would you rather have - an extention to your house or a lifetime of better sleep and anxiety-free sleep? I know what I would choose.

WOW, what a definate diagnosis and I bet your GP would have never picked it up !! I am realy excited for you.
I can understand how you feel about the money, it is expensive. Will you have to pay for a follow up consultation to get the blood results?
As said you could go to your GP with the diagnosis and see what happens. Get hold of some Magnesium NOW!!
Am lurking in anticipation ! x

Thanks guys.

I am just in such I muddle. I have so many questions...

Could RLS really be at the heart of all this? I feel it in my legs when watching TV, but am not really aware of it in bed, so can this really be my problem?

What does this mean in terms of having another baby? He said not to start reducing the mirtazapine... but how can I not if I want to work towards this goal...

And pregnancy makes RLS worse... not good news.

One of the treatments is benzos. There's no WAY I want to take benzos. He said there was no WAY I would get addicted... but I'd not like to take that chance thanks mr. big bucks.

The sleep re-training program sounds really good though - but I don't think I could handle having to come up to London each time. That's a lot of travel time, and the train ticket is £16 each time too. I'd have to basically get my mum to stay on an extra day each week to look after DD (she stays two nights a week each week at the mo, which is just about at my tolerability limit!) so I could go up to London.

I just don't think I could do it.

Yes, perhaps I should go to the GP with the diagnosis - but we opted to keep the GP "out of the picture" - what are my rights if I have gone "private" and they find out??? Does this exclude me from NHS treatment now???? What if this London place starts prescribing me stuff, how will my CMHT know about it, how will they communicate...

Oh dear, I am getting myself so worked up just thinking about it.

Yes RLS can indeed cause you to sleep really badly!!

topsi - I suspect you're right I would prob have to pay for a follow up appointment to get the blood results.

But oh my word - I've never had a blood test before surrounded my marble corridors and chandeliers!!! . I got my own private bay with a curtain round it. The lady was very nice and asked me if I was ok. I was fine (until I saw the bill). I think my plaster has diamonds encrusted in it

Pants. Pants pants PANTS.

The GP shouldn't mind and the private Dr should be able to write a letter with his diagnosis explained, he may charge you for it though!
What will be included on this sleep course?