Work re mental health - is this normal/OK?

[Burntoutandsevered]

I posted a while ago about my DH injuring himself and needing 6 weeks off at the same time I am chronically stressed at work and feeling at breaking point. DH and I have dealt with those issues quite well, we're in the middle of two weeks off together with DS off for Easter.

Its an understatement to say I'm dreading going back to work. I am a totally different person after 4 days off. I can feel the physical, gut wrenching dread creep back in when I think of going back. I can't cope with my life being that chaotic, sleep deprived, terrified, headachey, heart racing, crying before bed, ill. It makes me a crap mum, and horrible wife, and every area of my life suffers.

Just before I went on leave I was messaging one of my board / trustees. I said my mental health hadn't been great lately. This is how the conversation went:

Me: My mental health has been quite bad lately. I've raised it with (line manager, chair of board) but perhaps I've not been clear enough.

Trustee: [Redacted by MNHQ]. How bad is it?

Me: What do you want to know, how close I am to topping myself?

Trustee: Yep.

Me: Wow. OK. Well the research is clear about the detrimental impact of suicide on kids and I have a 9 Yr old, so I've discounted that as an option. (More from me on my poor mental health other than being suicidal.)

Trustee: when are you free tomorrow to talk more about this?

Me: My diary is pretty free for the rest of this week while I wrap things up.

Trustee: Wicked. Are you awake at 6am or is that too early for you?

Me: 6.30 is plausible. 6am is not.

Trustee: I'm on a train at 6.45. I can call you then.

Me: Do you think that's the best place / time to talk about this?

Trustee: Fair. Maybe we should schedule a time when we're both focused. When life is this intense if you don't have self care sewn in its unsustainable.

No further contact from trustee.

What the fuck is this exchange? It seems mental to me. What do I do in light of this?

For context, I run a charity that supports vulnerable people.

Edited by MNHQ to remove explicit reference to self harm

Also, last night I was thinking about this all while I was on my own. I had a freak out, sent my DH a link about passive suicide, called samaritans and spoke to them for an hour. I'm not very well.

DH saw the link this morning and said "what's this? You're not suicidal are you?"

I said "No".

He's been quite nice to me today.

That's unfair. He's been lovely. Has he addressed the s word head on? No. Understandable, I'm sure. I still feel a bit unseen.

I am so sorry to hear about your chronic work-related stress. It's a real condition and needs to be treated as such. You've done the right thing to contact the Samaritans. I haven't seen your previous post but were you signed off work by your GP or did you take annual leave? Can you say what is stressing you out at work or, if not, can you see the stress reducing with some kind of management? If you haven't yet, then please speak to your GP as a matter of urgency. The moment we think/mention suicide is a big red flag that sends alarm bells ringing. Please know that however bad things seem to be, they won't always be like that. And your family love you very much and need you in their lives. Outside and away from work how are you feeling? How are you coping day to day?

Day to day, its hard and I'm obviously not myself, but it's manageable. That's with me not at work.

I'm on two weeks annual leave. And I know I'm going to go back to a shit storm. Its a small organisation, no one is doing my job while I'm not there.

They were asking how bad is my mental health. They suggested that [redacted by MNHQ to remove reference to self harm] would "make it clearer" to my line manager. I don't think it's ambiguous.

Who says that to an employee?

First of all be kind to yourself. You don't sound ok to go back to work at the moment. And that is ok.

At times something has to give and it seems like work needs to take a back seat in your day to day life. You have been juggling DH etc and that in itself takes its toll.

Do not feel guilty or upset for needing to prioritise yourself at the moment.

Speak to your doctor and get a note for atleast 2 weeks. Maybe see if they have cbt it even some medical help? I haven't read other threads to know DH issues and the affect on you. But look after yourself.

I have no words for the Trustee saying those things to you!!! Very un professional and worrying. Do not engage with them. Keep it formal and all correspondence in writing.

I myself have had 3 weeks off work and it's wasn't fun but something had to give due to other influences. And I was told by my counselling person that I did the best thing as I can't pour from an empty cup and I needed to set boundaries to ensure my own physical and mental health.

Ohhh I get it now. I read it as them saying cut wrists would help with your mental health, not help your manager to understand.

Still an utterly bizarre, and pretty awful thing, to say.

I would suggest you visit your GP to talk about being signed off with stress. Following that, a meeting with your employer about a phased return and/or reduced workload.

Maybe I'm a sucker of a manager, but I cannot conceive of saying that to a member of staff. It all adds to the feeling that I'm being crazy.

This is so odd. Completely inappropriate, from what was said and the whole train scenario.

It sounds like you may need a sick note as suggested above to get some real distance and perspective on work, alongside some support via counselling or GP? I feel that is what a ‘normal’ manager would have said.

Do you have proper HR etc? I would be thinking along the lines of several weeks off sick and then an occupational health assessment on return.

Am i mental for thinking what this trustee, a person who is legally responsible for the conduct of a charity, has said is completely unacceptable? Gosh, maybe I am more bonkers than I thought.

I don't have proper HR. I am HR. And finance. And IT. Etc.

I wouldn’t say it to a member of staff but it is the kind of thing I would think and say to a peer.

i have spent a long time both working in mental health and schools, which has probably made me somewhat blase as if you are dealing with people who are suicidal or self harming on a regular basis you do get used to it and start to consider it as normal which obviously it isn’t.

No, you aren’t crazy, he is. Honestly, do whatever you need to get some space for now, then I would be looking for another job. I hope you’ve at least got decent sick pay? I’m so sorry, this is the last thing you need when you’re struggling anyway.

How close are you with this trustee? Because from an outsider, it does seem like a completely unacceptable thing to say.

However, I could see somebody who I’m close with at work saying something like that in “jest”. The comment seems to be saying, unless you’re walking around with something physical that can’t be ignored, MH issues don’t seem to get picked up on. It seems the trustee is saying it in a way that’s critical of the management’s lack of picking up on the issue.

Though it’s not good on their part that they’ve made no further action to contact you.

Our clients are sometimes self harming or suicidal. We have a way of dealing with and discussing that. If it was a member of my staff making the same noises, I'd act differently. Because I have a different duty of care.

Can you financially afford to hand your notice in without a job to go to? You need to not be in this role, I've managed a small charity that sounds a similar set up, stressful doesn't begin to describe the burden of being all things to all people. Do you have transferable skills? Are there lower stress roles that offer a similar income elsewhere? It won't solve everything but removing yourself from this situation may give you the head space to work thebother bits out. No job is worth this

Your job is making you ill. You need to get out and focus on your health. Absolutely no job is worth this anguish. Please talk to your GP.

@BeDenimZebra You're right, I need to not be in this role. I think managing small charities is a very particular thing, and it sounds like you get that. I've done it before. The issue is this board.

I don't have a financial cushion. I'd have to find something else before I left. And I feel so depleted I don't know how I'd go into a new job with any confidence I could actually do it.

I mean “jest” aside they’ve actually walked you through the standard assessment of level of suicidality.

yes, this is a thing.

first question, would you do it,
if yes then other questions, if no then they write down that you have “protective factors” and are unlikely to.

so the trustee assessed whether you are likely to actually do it, and when no then attempted to set up a phone meeting which you seem to have blocked?

at that point it’s not immediately urgent, and if you aren’t happy with the meeting at that time presumably you are happy to wait.

You already know it's not ok, OP. I am sorry that you are getting so little support.

What you describe is sadly far too common in small charities: https://www.faircollective.co.uk/post/small-charity-leaders-mental-health-is-at-crisis-point

There is a small thing called empathy that appears to have been entirely missing from the conversation, though.

@octavia64 so an employee not being available at 6.30am means they're blocking, is a sign their issue is not urgent, and therefore requires no urgent action? I'm glad I don't work for you, and wouldn't employ you to work for me.