Work re mental health - is this normal/OK?

[Burntoutandsevered]

I posted a while ago about my DH injuring himself and needing 6 weeks off at the same time I am chronically stressed at work and feeling at breaking point. DH and I have dealt with those issues quite well, we're in the middle of two weeks off together with DS off for Easter.

Its an understatement to say I'm dreading going back to work. I am a totally different person after 4 days off. I can feel the physical, gut wrenching dread creep back in when I think of going back. I can't cope with my life being that chaotic, sleep deprived, terrified, headachey, heart racing, crying before bed, ill. It makes me a crap mum, and horrible wife, and every area of my life suffers.

Just before I went on leave I was messaging one of my board / trustees. I said my mental health hadn't been great lately. This is how the conversation went:

Me: My mental health has been quite bad lately. I've raised it with (line manager, chair of board) but perhaps I've not been clear enough.

Trustee: [Redacted by MNHQ]. How bad is it?

Me: What do you want to know, how close I am to topping myself?

Trustee: Yep.

Me: Wow. OK. Well the research is clear about the detrimental impact of suicide on kids and I have a 9 Yr old, so I've discounted that as an option. (More from me on my poor mental health other than being suicidal.)

Trustee: when are you free tomorrow to talk more about this?

Me: My diary is pretty free for the rest of this week while I wrap things up.

Trustee: Wicked. Are you awake at 6am or is that too early for you?

Me: 6.30 is plausible. 6am is not.

Trustee: I'm on a train at 6.45. I can call you then.

Me: Do you think that's the best place / time to talk about this?

Trustee: Fair. Maybe we should schedule a time when we're both focused. When life is this intense if you don't have self care sewn in its unsustainable.

No further contact from trustee.

What the fuck is this exchange? It seems mental to me. What do I do in light of this?

For context, I run a charity that supports vulnerable people.

Edited by MNHQ to remove explicit reference to self harm

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves thank you for the link.

Wtaf, that's a completely unprofessional reaction from the trustee. No that's not how one should respond to a stressed employee, and yes of course you are correct to think that that's inappropriate.

💐

1. get signed off by your GP, you are at an unsustainable stress level and you need to rest.

2. talk honestly with your DH, you are describing yourselves as coping well together and maybe that's true, but if work is crushing you then that needs to be recognised. You can't pour from an empty cup.

3. make a plan for job hunting which puts your mental health at the forefront. So maybe the plan is NOT to start that yet until you feel mentally capable and first you will need some sick leave. Accept that just like your DH has been ill and needed recovery time, that is also going to apply to you. But start planning your exit.

4. work out what other support will help you. In your place I would be leaning on some friends for advice and comfort and maybe help with DC. Or do you have family who can help? Would therapy work better? Start reaching out or brainstorming with your DH.

Good luck 💐

He didn't take you seriously... it's time to consider other options!

There's some useful advice here, and I'm thankful for that.

One thing I find gard is references to 'management'. I AM the management. There's no-one more senior than me who is an employee. And I have a small team of (mostly) dedicated, young, talented staff that I've recruited and, if I disappeared on sick leave, would be massively shafted. I feel such a huge responsibility to them, as well as our very vulnerable client base. If i fall over, I feel like everyone else falls over too. So i'd be letting so many people down. I know no one is irreplaceable. I'm sure many people could do my job better than me (whether they would want to is a different story). But in the short term, going off sick would leave a lot of people who've out their trust in me in the lurch. I take that trust seriously. Yet others (trustee!) don't seem so bothered. And there in lies the rub.

Sorry - typos.

Sorry if I've missed something, why don't you leave and get another job? There's no point staying somewhere that you're not enjoying. Kindly, you're being a martyr and they'd be better off having someone who wants to be there, so you won't be letting anyone down. Everyone might want someone new, given you're feeling this way I'm sure others are picking up on it too. Maybe if you leave, then others will too. Maybe that will be the wake up call for the trustees.

Sorry, I’ve used manager meaning the trustee. Basically, whether you are the overall manager or not, the same thing applies about feeling like you’re letting people down, and also about the trustee being inappropriate in their response.

I would say you need to figure out if you’re at a point where you have to prioritise yourself and your family over other people. It sounds like you are. I’m not saying it’s easy but it might be necessary. You won’t be doing a good job for the people who rely on you if you’re not functioning at your best.

Well yes, getting another job and leaving is my ideal scenario. But applying for, interviewing for and starting a new, senior job when I feel like this is...hard.

Well from what you've said and I remember your other post too, I don't think you have any other option. So probably better to just get on with looking for another job now, it's going to get harder then longer you stay. Once you make the decision and starting do it, I guarantee you'll feel much better as you are actively planning your exit.

I’m not talking about a normal work context.

i’m talking about assessing levels of suicidality.

urgent in that context is actually in the act/has detailed plans and you need to get an ambulance on the way to them because they are currently or are very likely to seriously physically harm themselves in the next hour or so.

i’m not saying your mental issues are not serious and urgent. They are. What I’m saying is that if the trustee was following the standard way of assessing suicidality (and what they said, the “jest” aside is pretty textbook) then they ascertained that you were not committing, not likely to do so soon and then tried to set up a meeting.

you sound like you are in a very difficult position, and that you feel a deep sense of responsibility to your charity and also to your family.

i only posted because you asked if the trustee’s response was bonkers, and to me it was a protocol I recognised.

Speaking as someone who was suffering in work like you are over 20 years ago, you really need to take sick leave and recover. Because chronic, debilitating stress can tip over into clinical depression, as it did with me, and that’s a very dark place you don’t want to go to. You do need a different job, but it sounds like you’re not well enough to look for one yet so your priority for now must be getting better. I do absolutely understand feeling that you’ll be letting people down, I was the same, but you are no good to them as you are now, anyway. At the end of the day you won’t get a medal for ruining your mental health for your job. Your health has to come first. No job is worth suffering like this for.

Oh no, no, no this is absolutely not an appropriate response from your trustee. I’m so sorry you’ve been met with that kind of flippant reaction when you clearly reached out in distress. You are absolutely right to feel uneasy about it. That exchange isn’t just unprofessional, it’s deeply concerning.

It sounds like you are completely burnt out and at breaking point. This situation isn’t just tough, it’s unsustainable. So often in the charity sector, especially in small organisations, the passion and goodwill of one person ends up holding everything together, but the cost is enormous. Having it all rest on your shoulders like this is too much for any one person.

Do you have any kind of umbrella organisation, or are you part of a wider network that could step in, even short term? Sometimes there are agencies or interim managers who can hold things while people take urgently needed sick leave. I’m sure you’ve thought about the practicalities but I wonder if part of the brutal truth is that something may have to give. Whether it’s the charity or another area of your life, something has to change.

Also, just to say ime, trustees are often recruited for a specific skillset, but that doesn’t always mean they have the emotional intelligence or the management ability to support staff properly, especially in crisis situations. At the end of the day, they’re volunteers — often well-meaning but not always equipped to handle something like this, and sadly it shows in the exchange you shared.

I hope you can find some support, whether through your GP, professional supervision, or people outside of the charity world who can hold you up while you figure out your next steps.

wishing you strength

Wow this is unbelievable you run a charity to help others and this is the treatment you get. Well the trustee clearly only gives an f about themselves I think you may need to be looking for another role whilst your on leave. Hope your ok. Maybe also speak to your GP. I'm a legal executive in fraud and I'm not that stressed I should be but I'm not because my work are very supportive. I'm sorry you are going through this OP. There's always a way to change things and there's always light at the end of the tunnel x

Definitely not OK and not normal. The trustee has come out with insensitive comments that are of the sort of “clumsy comment” that could result in an employer losing a tribunal claim.

I have a dark sense of humour but find myself thinking on what planet does that trustee think joking about when someone has disclosed they are experiencing poor mental health and had little in terms of support after raising it with their managers is acceptable. This trustee however then proposed a chat with you about your health and the issues affecting you when they’re due to be on a train. Couple of red flags there - GDPR implications of having such a conversation when other people are around clearly not considered plus the obvious issue of the phone signal would likely cut out during what is going to be a hard and possibly upsetting conversation.

Frankly I would have no faith in pursuing a further conversation with that trustee. I have had to delete several words I used to describe my thoughts about that trustee.
Suffice to say I think speaking to them again could do more harm than good.

This sounds toxic to me. I agree with others who have said to speak to your GP and take time out to focus on your health.

Even before you explained I was going to say do you work for A charity? The issue is with charities (other caring professions too) is the staff care, a lot, and you can push yourself to the limit. Most people don't do that.

Stress is 100% real. I was in a stressful work situation in the pandemic and vv low. I was calling samaritans several times a week.

Im now in a much, better job, and I experience what it's like to NOT feel stressed every day. The biggest difference is the culture where I work.

I had about 3 months living expenses saved and claimed universal credit. I also got money back on council tax. Took 3 months to find a new job. When I started I didn't get taxed on the first month due to the last 3 months not working. So all in all I didn't get into debt and just told new employer that I fancied a change.

At a minimum go to the GP and get signed off for a month. Don't feel guilty, loads of people would in your situation.

I've been exactly where you are - CEO of a small charity, having to be all things to all people and being most of the key functions of the organisation, providing services to vulnerable people, recruited a mostly young and enthusiastic team, trustees who didn't actually offer any realistic support and the job slowly crushing me to the point my MH tanked.

I totally get feeling that you can't go off sick or leave, but you can, I promise you. If you go off sick, your trustees will have to step up and sort things out, or they will let things go, but it will not be your fault or responsibility. I ended up so unwell that I just ceased to function and was hospitalised. I was off sick for fourteen months and genuinely thought I would never recover. Looking back I wish I had just gone off sick earlier and not put me and my family through that.

My colleagues did survive and so did the organisation. The trustees finally realised THEY were the employer and had to step up and found interim cover. TBH I only had a job to go back to because they were too disorganised to start capability proceedings, but they did do the other things.

I did go back, but I have since moved on to be a freelancer, partly because working like that was just not sustainable for my physical or mental health, and no organisation or cause is worth that.

What your trustee said is, as someone said above, exactly the kind of thing that gets employers taken to employment tribunals. If you haven't already, start documenting any meetings you have with trustees/the chair and times you have mentioned your mental health and stress to them.

Please, please, please get signed off and if you feel able get your GP to state work related stress - as far I understand employers responsibilities this means they have a duty to investigate that and try to deal with the causes of the stress.

As you have said, as a manager, if someone came to me saying what you are, I would tell them to go to the GP, get signed off and take the time they need. I would not want them to be at work for their own wellbeing and also tbh for potential organisational liability. It's very weird being line managed by an unpaid volunteer trustee who may or may not have management experience, so I totally get the feeling that although they are nominally your line manager, they don't exactly offer what you do to others you manage.

Something that's also worth considering is that going off sick when you need to is a very important thing to model to your young and enthusiastic team. If we want things to change in the charity sector, modelling working ourselves into illness isn't it. Yes, they will find it hard if you are off, but they will also find skills and abilities they didn't know they had.

I know it very frequently is the case in the charity sector, but no organisation should have a single point of failure and if the only way to get your trustees to step up is to not be there, then they will have to deal with that situation of their own making.

You will get through this, you will get another job, you will look back on this one day from a much better place, but you need to give yourself the time, space and care to make it happen. Please get signed off and look after yourself - being a small charity CEO is very lonely and no one else will look after you sadly, so you have to do it.

I meant to say if you'd like to DM me please feel free to do so

Op.

I’ve been in this position recently. Though very different roles. I’m currently an ITU nurse and the stress and anxiety surrounding work led to a nervous breakdown. We are sos short staff and there are very few of us experienced nurses working along side very inexperienced nurses (for an Itu setting the pressure is on us experienced ones to look after the sickest babies, and support those very inexperienced staff to look after sick babies.. Looking back at the last few months of my life, I was so mentally unwell, I wasn’t sleeping, wasn’t eating. Anxiety consumed me, consumed everything really. Even the post coming through the door sent me into a hell of a state.

I applied for another job, currently working my notice. I think once I realised how mentally unwell my job was making me it made me determined to change… my managers response was “ok thank you burntoutnurse for your email I will calculate your accrued leave for you”

we really are just numbers. And no job is worth your mental health. Get signed off for two weeks even, you’ve said yourself you can see a huge difference in yourself after just 4 days off work, use the time now whilst your feeling better to find another job,

even just knowing I won’t be in that situation forever has eased a lot of my anxiety

Completely inappropriate convo from your trustee, I’m so sorry.

A lot of your post resonated with me when I was suffering burnout and work anxiety- the crushing feeling in my chest, the dread, the not actively being suicidal but the vague thoughts and conversations about it, the feeling unseen.

I don’t know if you already are taking them, and appreciate it’s not a silver bullet for everyone, but SSRIs saved my life when I was feeling like this. They removed the feeling of dread and anxiety in my chest that was there from the moment I woke up in the morning, and allowed me to function enough that I was able to interview for and ultimately find another job.

Speak to your GP again, see if you can have some more time off. And good luck.

You need to change job.

basically you need to step away (take dick leave) to allow others to step up. Things will naturally implode a little before they find their feet and that’s ok.

You need to take sick leave and use the time to unwind and get perspective on things. What needs to change to make work less stressful? That includes inside and outside of work.
Your trustee may not have followed up because you are on holiday. Would they usually get in touch during time off?
That aside, it sounds like overall you don't feel supported by your trustees so take some time to think about what that support should look like, call a meeting, spell it out to them and follow up with their role descriptions. It may be that you need to ask them to consider stepping down if they can't meet their role requirements. Is there budget to get you some good support and help take away some of the noise day to day so you can focus on the strategic actions? All of this can only happen when you are less stressed, so take the sick time and, when you are ready, think what better looks like and how you will achieve it. The alternative is to look at your transferable skills and consider a new job.

I remember your post.

Trustee’s messages were inappropriate and poor. You can’t rely on them to help you.

I’d seek help for your mental health from elsewhere, eg GP and any NHS services and / or a qualified counsellor if you can afford it. Take the time you’re now on annual leave as GP-certified sick leave.

When feeling bit better would job seek.

Conscientiousness regarding your work and team is fine, up to a point, but not to the level you’re taking it, which is very unhealthy for you and actually unhelpful to the team, too. It’s the trustees’ responsibility to address resourcing issues.

Should you never go back to your role they would simply replace you, with whoever they could get. You need to care for yourself.

My DM had a difficult, senior work role and stopped work suddenly, at a young age, due to a physical health condition exacerbated by physical aspects of her work and a work injury. They replaced her quickly and treated her badly. Her health didn’t recover and she had decades of pain.

With the trustees would focus primarily not on your MH (seek help elsewhere for that) but on the problems and what you think would help and are asking them to do.