Work re mental health - is this normal/OK?

[Burntoutandsevered]

I posted a while ago about my DH injuring himself and needing 6 weeks off at the same time I am chronically stressed at work and feeling at breaking point. DH and I have dealt with those issues quite well, we're in the middle of two weeks off together with DS off for Easter.

Its an understatement to say I'm dreading going back to work. I am a totally different person after 4 days off. I can feel the physical, gut wrenching dread creep back in when I think of going back. I can't cope with my life being that chaotic, sleep deprived, terrified, headachey, heart racing, crying before bed, ill. It makes me a crap mum, and horrible wife, and every area of my life suffers.

Just before I went on leave I was messaging one of my board / trustees. I said my mental health hadn't been great lately. This is how the conversation went:

Me: My mental health has been quite bad lately. I've raised it with (line manager, chair of board) but perhaps I've not been clear enough.

Trustee: [Redacted by MNHQ]. How bad is it?

Me: What do you want to know, how close I am to topping myself?

Trustee: Yep.

Me: Wow. OK. Well the research is clear about the detrimental impact of suicide on kids and I have a 9 Yr old, so I've discounted that as an option. (More from me on my poor mental health other than being suicidal.)

Trustee: when are you free tomorrow to talk more about this?

Me: My diary is pretty free for the rest of this week while I wrap things up.

Trustee: Wicked. Are you awake at 6am or is that too early for you?

Me: 6.30 is plausible. 6am is not.

Trustee: I'm on a train at 6.45. I can call you then.

Me: Do you think that's the best place / time to talk about this?

Trustee: Fair. Maybe we should schedule a time when we're both focused. When life is this intense if you don't have self care sewn in its unsustainable.

No further contact from trustee.

What the fuck is this exchange? It seems mental to me. What do I do in light of this?

For context, I run a charity that supports vulnerable people.

Edited by MNHQ to remove explicit reference to self harm

When you choose to take a chief exec type role (ie one where you don’t have a manager in tub typical sense) then you also need to take on some of the responsibility for things that a manager would usually do for their team.

In this case, it’s taking appropriate action when you’re not well enough to work.

Try looking at you as if you were your manager. The bit around other people needing you to work you would say is nonsense, and that at work we’re all replaceable and it isn’t worth breaking anyone for. If you’re the ultimate boss then yes, you do it slightly differently in that where possible you make arrangements for the interim. Even if those arrangements is a massive email to the board with a list of key things that need to ensure are covers while you’re off.

What would happen if you had an acute physical condition eg heart attack and you needed time off?

The charity will or won’t survive but you come first. You have a duty of care to your family to feel better and you’re not going to do that whilst you’re in the thick of stress and anxiety.

Sometimes, all other things aside, you just need to focus on yourself. You deserve the time to heal and to be happy.

It isn’t sustainable to be feeling the way you do - at some point you’re going to need to make this choice so do it now whilst you’re functioning rather than once you’ve either done something silly or gone too deep. You won’t be the first or last person in a highly responsible role to step down due to health reasons.

No you're not a sucker of a manager.

Your trustee is a twat. Get yourself signed off and look for another job.

The world is a better place with you in it

You sound really ill and need to be signed off. Your colleague sounds like an arse hole.

This. I’ve been there op, look for another job, not straightaway. You need at least a few weeks of sleep fresh air and not thinking of anything about work. No job is worth your mental health and I don’t mean that in a trivial way, I damaged myself in jobs thst were bad for me - bullying etc. please get signed off for as long as you can.

I hear you @Burntoutandsevered , you are clearly a massively conscientious and caring leader but this is a massive wake up call. These feelings are not “normal” and are a huge warning sign and I think you do know that but because you care you are almost trying to explain it away. Please stop trying to do that, you are valuable and unique and this is your body and mind desperately trying to tell you that you’re in danger, I and others have been there and it can destroy you, please don’t let that happen.

Take care and keep talking.

What was this in response to? Feel I missed a post?

I know it's trite, but you need to put your own oxygen mask on first before you can help others. Which means taking the time you need to recover.

It would be far, far better for you to spend the next few days preparing a handover to the trustees of the essentials and then getting signed off than to completely crash mentally in a way that doesn't allow for any handover.

Sometimes being the leader means admitting to yourself and everyone around you that you need a break. I think you're thinking is currently so disordered that you aren't thinking logically. Just stop and let someone else do it for you

I am horrified, by that exchange, genuinely horrified.

That is the most unprofessional and indeed dangerous exchange I think I have ever heard. I work in a similar field. The trustee has a duty of care, and has dismissed your issues by not even bothering to contact you or follow up. It is shocking.

It is no wonder your mental health is suffering. Your well being seems totally irrelevant to those around you. Quite frankly the charity is unlikely to survive with that culture whether you stay or go op.

Ask your gp to sign you off for two weeks, you can then add another two weeks after that with stress - you now have six weeks at least to update your CV, enjoy a break and job hunt. You can’t work there any longer, no job is worth it op.

If it is a shit show that isn’t your problem.

They have highlighted how little they care for you, you owe them nothing. As a bare minimum a welfare check was necessary. This is unsustainable, that we do agree on. Make a plan B and start today.

Just because you are not going to end your life, does not mean you are therefore fine! You could be close to mental collapse, be actively having a nervous breakdown and the disregard is truly shocking.

Please leave. Put together a handover and leave them to it.

I am so sorry you are suffering like this op.

Hello OP, we are really sorry to hear you are feeling this way.

We hope you don't mind, but when these threads are flagged up to us we usually add a link to our Mental Health resources: https://www.mumsnet.com/webguide/mental-health. You can also visit the Samaritans website at www.samaritans.org or email them on [email protected].

Support from other Mumsnetters is great and we really hope you will be able to take some comfort from your fellow posters, but as we're sure you know already, it's important to seek help IRL too.

We also like to remind everyone that, although we're awed daily by the astonishing support our members give each other through life's trickier twists and turns, we'd always caution anyone never to give more of themselves to another poster, emotionally or financially, than they can afford to spare.
We hope things improve for you soon, OP.

Thank you for all the advice. I'm not going to do anything silly. I am going to get some proper mental health support, and see my GP to get signed off with work related stress.

What I'm not sure of is how best to communicate things to the board. Does anyone have any practical tips or steps that could help? Quesruons I asking myself:

What level of detail should I go into re the state of my physical and mental health?

To what extent should I point out what specific problems at work have caused this?

To what extent should I make an effort to hand over thoroughly to the board? The thought of this fills me with dread and feels like a month's work.

Should I communicate anything directly to my team or leave the board to do that?

At the moment I feel I don't want to go back. I'm tempted to go to the office this weekend and remove some of my personal things and tidy my desk up a bit. Is that unwise for any reason?

Thanks for helping me think this through. I appreciate your time. And to all those who've been in similar situations before, I'm sorry you went through that and I hope things are better now.

To add, I've had six months of poor physical health lately too, which I think work has contributed to. I had a weird, random infection last autumn which I left for too long because I felt I couldn't take the time off and ended up on the verge of sepsis and needing an operation. Since Christmas I've had back to back colds, a chest infection, and now have an ear infection in both ears which is making me quite deaf. I'm sure chronic stress has made it harder for me to recover from what would usually be minor ailments. I'm not sure how it will all end if I don't stop.

I would absolutely go in this weekend and collect what you need, that way it's not hanging over you.

I decided to simply resign and not offer any explanation to my trustees, I didn't want it being mentioned in future references and wasn't sure how professional they would be.

It's up to you what you share with your team, how likely are you to cross paths with them in the future? Does it matter to you personally what narrative they are told? I stuck to my story of wanting to pursue a new path because I didn't want to unsettle the team but you need to do what feels right for you.

As for a handover it's part of the trustees roles to make sure there is a succession plan, if they haven't done this it's on them not you. I prepared a list of daily, weekly, monthly tasks I performed and left it at that, my deputy had a fairly good handle on what was happening so I was lucky that I could walk away without any guilt.

I'm happy to tell you that I'm loving my new job, although it could still be considered stressful having clear line management and HR in place makes it a much less daunting place to be.

I wish you the very best for wherever this path leads you, I know it's overwhelming now giving up that control but it does get better

Others more knowledgeable may come along, I think probably give work minimal information around your health. Being signed off demonstrates how serious it is, they don’t need further details (especially given their previous response). You can ask that the note is for work related stress specifically. Send the note to the relevant person, don’t contact anyone else. If you can do a handover email great, but if it’s too much then don’t.

Also well done, it can be so hard to make the decision, but things will get better from here.

I would keep it brief, just the information from the GP, but state in writing that in your view work issues X, Y and Z have affected you.

You’re not well enough for work, which includes handover work.

You can always share more information later. What you cannot do is unshare it.

With that in mind, tell them unfortunately you are unwell & have been signed off for x time. Minimal detail.

Share ALL of this with your gp though, physical and mental health, and ask to be signed off for a significant period. I had a time of being signed off work during our busiest period once and the worst thing I did was keep dangling them along. In my defence I kept being told I would improve 🤣 but the constant "I'll probably be back in a fortnight" and then it comes and you aren't well enough to return, does no one any favours. Tell work that you have been signed off for x months and that will empower them to make long term plans.

And do NOT think "oh I'm doing better I think I could go back earlier than the doctor said". I'm just saying that because it sounds like that might be a danger 😝 Take. The. Time.

Hello. I'm sorry to re-awaken this thread. It's been very useful and a source of real support, I'm extremely grateful for everyone's contributions. And to MNHQ for their wise interjection. Hats off to this community and its moderators.

I went in over the weekend and removed some personal things, tidied up a bit of filing and basically made my desk, draw and in-tray palatable to a critical eye. That took about 15 minutes, which gave me some confidence that i have been doing a good job.

I also took my beloved plants home. DH repotted them and gave them a good water. That felt nice.

I phoned samaritans again late the other night and had quite a long chat. It's so odd when you also support vulnerable people for a living. I kept saying sorry for taking their time, using work language to describe myself. I wrote a note to my husband about how I was feeling but then chickened out, photographed it on my phone and burnt it in the sink. That's not normal is it?

Next week has become quite unexpectedly busy with various (and very different and disperate) family visiting here and there. I'm not massively looking forward to that, as I'm not sure how well i can keep up the pretence. And i need t9 do extra housework. I'm also going to have to see the GP between said visits. Does anyone have experience of communicating complex mental health and work struggles to family in quite a short, sharp, intense environment (as in, they're coming to stay and have no idea, I can't lie, I'm obviously not OK, what the hell do i say?)?

I've been quite consumed with thinking about what to say to the GP. How much detail, what to emphasise. Similarly with my Chair. At some point I'm going to have to tell them what's going on. I don't know what to say and the iterations of possible conversations is one of the things keeping me awake.

Thanks again for the support I've had on this thread. I know its not the most riveting of humorous posts. Sorry for rambling.

All your chair needs to know initially is that you’re not well enough to come to work, you think it might take a while til you are, and you’ll be in touch in whatever time frame (eg when sick note expires).

For the GP I would write everything down in bullet points and take it with you so you don't forget anything. You need to tell them everything.

For work, I'd simply tell your chair you are jot well and email the sick note.

Do you have to have the visitors? Can you not tell them you are poorly so this week really doesn't work? Or do you want to see them and tell them? How much you share would for me be dependent on how supportive they are likely to be

Yes, o have to have the visitors. One set are travellung the length of the country anf using us as a stop over. The other have come crom across the pond to visit family for the first time in six years. I'd also like to see them, although maybe not right now. They're generally quite supportive. I'm just nervous of the exposure. And resistant to the effort.

In that case I would tell your partner he has to step up and take on the bulk of the preparations for the visitors and I would pre warn them that I'm not very well, I'd say it's a personal matter and not contagious but I'm off work and not functioning at 100% so to bear with me.

Those aren’t strong reasons to host visitors.

Why not ask the Samaritans to help you make a list of points to tell the gp? Or show her/him the note you photographed for DH.

I am suggesting the Samaritans help you plan this though because it still sounds to me like you are underestimating the strength of your feelings here OP. You could walk in to the GP and say (as you did in your first post) that you have discounted suicide as an option. Or you could say that you've recently sent your DH a link to passive suicide and that you've felt the need to ring the Samaritans. These two things would paint quite different pictures for the doctor.

I agree you should ideally tell your visitors you can't host, but it doesn't sound like you will 😝 so best of luck with telling them how you are doing. It sounds like you have had plenty of physical symptoms which you may feel more comfortable telling them about, so maybe lead with those and explain that work stress on top of all that has left you exhausted and you are seeing your GP to be signed off. Hopefully that will make it clear to them to be supportive?