End of life procedure in Switzerland misused for vulnerable elderly mother

[lemonsqueezer55]

A family friend is bi-polar and come off her medication. She needs to be help and the family is on that but meanwhile she has arranged an assisted death in Switzerland. She is struggling with poverty and this is another reason why she wants to end her live. A man has taken 10,000 from her to make the arrangements and help her travel there. While the family is working on getting her mental health help is there any way to get the man to stop? Is there an advocacy group that could help me make a complaint to the police?

The family does not believe she would go through with the travel and procedure even in her incapacitated state if he was not preying on her. I can see in the news other families are struggling with this. He is based in the UK and the mother is overseas.

Here is an example of just one of many families dealing with it.
‘There was no dignity for our family,’ says niece of Irish man who died by euthanasia - Gript

And tips on where to get help would be appreciated.

I can call the agency in Switzerland but that will only delay or prevent her booking. It won't stop them from misusing what should be an end of life procedure for the terminally ill or people in pain.

It is legal for individuals to organise their own trip to Switzerland.

It is not legal to help them.

See bbc news article here where a son explains how upset he is that he could not help his mum because in the U.K. it is illegal to assist in a suicide,

Assisted dying: Grieving son calls for law change www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-66913696

This briefing note has more details.

humanists.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019-2-1-KM-Assisted-Dying-Briefing_-Number-of-UK-citizens-going-to-Switzerland-to-seek-an-assisted-death-1.pdf

As she is known to be non compliant with her medication I would inform the CMHT/ CPN and explain her situation
Could her ideas of euthanasia be symptoms of a psychotic episode?( I have Bipolar)

@scalliondays do you know that about the refund for sure. When a member of her family tried calling to say that she is bipolar and off her medication and this is not 'her' but a psychotic episode and she is well loved and norma
lly high functioning, they immediately cancelled her appointment. Then the intermediary intimidated the family member and got them to say they would not take legal action and the centre agreed to make then her a new booking. We cannot take her passport because that would be a crime. It seems that getting her into the hospital in her home country is best and then phoning to cancel to say she is 'committed' and unable to make an informed choice because of mental incapacity would be the best bet. But how do we stop him from recruiting vulnerable people to this clinic? I need a lawyer or a class action for the affected families, I think.

What do you need to do to prove she is 'incapable of making an informed decision' or doing it for a 'selfish reason', which is what the law says in Switzerland? Or prove the intermediary is doing it for a 'malicious reason', which is also their classification in the law to make it criminal.

Who is this man and how is he connected to the clinic? You need to answer that for people to be able to comment properly. If it’s an employee of the clinic - and there are several- then he won’t be chasing her for money, he will be acting on her instructions. If she has capacity she is entitled to want to end her life.

"Then the intermediary intimidated the family member and got them to say they would not take legal action"

Then I would get back in touch and say we absolutely will take legal action.

What did the person say that was intimidating? Any threats? Record all calls.

Are you sure this is a genuine clinic? It seems very unlikely one would need or choose to proactively recruit clients. Just how did she make contact with this man? He could well be scamming her for the money, not on behalf of her or a clinic.

People are allowed to not take their medication. They very well may still have capacity. Who exactly is her therapist ? A medically qualified doctor ? Because otherwise they have no idea of her capacity.

If this person has capacity then why shouldn’t they permitted to end their life
?

Under Swiss law if she has a serious mental health disorder then a psychiatrist must certify her as competent to make the decision to suicide.

See Wikipedia here and the Swiss court judgement here (in German, sorry).

So if she did make it to Switzerland she would be examined by a psychiatrist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dignitas(Swisssnon-profitorganisation)

http://relevancy.bger.ch/php/clir/http/index.php?lang=de&type=showdocument&page=1&frommdate=&todate=&frommyear=1954&toyear=2014&sort=relevance&insertionndate=&fromdateepush=&topsubcollectionnclir=bge&querywords=&part=all&deefr=&deit=&frrde=&frit=&ittde=&itfr=&orig=&translation=&rank=0&highlighttdocid=atf%3A%2F%2F133-I-58%3Ade&numberoffranks=0&azaclir=clir#page240

@Pigeonqueen thanks for trying to help. To be honest I don't know. it looks like the law says you have to have someone to witness the death so that is the service he offers. While he is independent of the clinic, they seem to have a close relationship.

The first link you shared is from Gript
This is a hardcore far right site set up by a bigoted fervent Catholic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McGuirk
You're coming across like you think people with mental illness should be deprived of agency if their wishes conflict with their relatives'.

If he is a witness he won’t be getting the £10k. There are really strict guidelines about it all and I’m in a chronic health group with lots of people looking into it, in several clinics, and there’s a very robust protocol, there’s little room to exploit people as the risk of prosecution is high.

The difficulties come in trying to assess whether someone has the mental capacity to make the decision.

@Pigeonqueen Good to know. I think he's just arranging the travel then. Do you have examples of what counts as incapacity ?

If she's arrested and hospitalized in her home country does that count? Her Dr is saying she's prepared to write a letter that she's not got capacity.

I can’t really give specific examples - most of my knowledge is related to physical chronic illnesses - but from what you have written I think anyone would have serious concerns over her capacity. It’s important to recognise though that someone wanting to end their life doesn’t necessarily mean they are automatically mentally ill. I know to many people that sounds like a contradiction in terms (!) when we’re all led to divert people to Samaritans at the first sign of someone suggesting they’re suicidal but end of life decisions are somewhat different to this.

What country is she in, why would she be arrested? If its harassment or a scam report it to the police.

I think you should think really hard about your own motives and the ethics of what you're doing here. Do you really believe she doesn't have capacity to make her own decisions? She isn't competent to run her own finances, or feed and clothe herself, or decide whether or not to attend a smear test? Medical capacity doesn't just mean making decisions YOU think are optimal. Be really sure that you aren't misusing the idea that she lacks capacity because you want to override her choices. It isn't about what you want.

There is a suicide forum that it giving people the info they need to commit suicide. I can’t remember its name, but it blew up recently as they tried to take it down but couldn’t. I wonder if someone from a forum like this might be helping her.

@sprigatito there is no doubt in the eyes of the therapist of 20 years, all of her large and loving family and the police that she has no capacity. She could not even do the journey with out this intermediary's help. She has a trust to manage finances and can't house herself. My only question is what does the Swiss law categorize as incapacity. There is no question in my mind

Sorry OP, just back to the thread. The clinic my relation went to has the cancellation policy on their website. It was all arranged via the clinic. They offered to help with travel and accommodation. She was allocated an assistant who drove her from the airport and then later to a small flat on the outskirts of a town for the final appointment where she ended her life. All of this was arranged via the internet from the UK. At one point she asked about pushing the date back but they said they were busy so she went ahead. I don't think there was any attempt to assess whether she was capable of making such a huge decision. I support euthanasia for terminally ill people but this clinic just processes people for profit. I doubt they would refuse anyone. It's terrifying.

Swiss guidelines on capacity.

You should also note that the police, therapists and family members are not generally considered appropriate professionals to decide on capacity.

The decision as to whether someone has capacity is a professional medical one, and it doesn't matter what their family, therapist or anyone else thinks.

https://www.samw.ch/dam/jcr:68d1793c-6343-4e84-bed0-c1532928e42e/guidelinessamssassessmentoffcapacity.pdf

The fact that you titled this vulnerable elderly mother then referred to an old family friend who is bi-polar has confused me as to whether this about someone you actually know or is a general post about euthanasia. I think we are going to see more of this as the campaign to legalise it in this country grows.

But the opinions of a therapist, the police and the family are irrelevant.

@scalliondays that is shocking.

OP, taking her passport may well be a crime but under certain circumstances I would do it, and deal with the consequences. If you are sure that this is not a choice she would usually make.

I agree with others that you can’t deprive people of agency. Preserving their agency for them by restricting their options while they are experiencing an episode of extreme distress is different, imo.

It’s different if extreme mental distress is a constant state. If it’s episodic and they enjoy life while well then they need to be assisted to stay safe while ill.

OP isn't even family though. Why would she be taking the person's passport?

Who is overseeing her trust fund? Wouldn't they carry out due diligence and be aware that it was a scam, if it is a scam?