Husband delusional thoughts of persecution... never had MH issues before

[Metabigot]

My husand told me he'd had this secret for the last 12 years that he'd been too embarrassed/ashamed to tell me.

He then started talking like a mad man.

He said there were a group of people who wanted to spy on him and take pictures of him going to the loo or masturbating. I said why he said to put on the internet and tell everyhone he was a pervert.

He only sees/them hears them in speific situaitons usually festivals or parties. I asked if they knew us or knew anyone we knew. He thought they may be friends of friends but when I pointed out that the situatoins he'd seen them in had been with totally different friend groups he came unstuck.

So he thinks this malevolent group just so happen to go to every festival/party (seems to be big parties where he doesn't know many) even though they don't know any of our mutual friends, and they just so happen to end up camping near us etc with the intention of putting cameras in our tent/putting him under surveillance to try and gain evidence of him doing something humiliating.

He said he heard them at my brother's party when he was in the loo, despite ackowedging they weren't invitees - when probed he said they must have been next door and watching him. I said bit of a coincidence they moved right next to my brother! So it's all absolute nonsense but he can't see it as whenever I challenge him he says 'but I heard them say x'

Typicallly this is making nasty or sexual comments bout him - the worst one being 'the voice' saying he must be really enjoying taking a look when changing daughters nappy. He actually thinks this person 'said' that to him on one of the camping/festival occasions.

He's never shown any other signs of reality distortion this does seem very situation specific and I think was triggered by a real life incicent where (before he met me) he was pleasuring himself in a tent at a festival and the people next door may have heard and possibly said something - he said he lay there frozen with humiliation for hours.

He then said they were trying to capture pictures of him as he found some broken mirror in the tent that was theirs. and that later he saw one of the people with a camera. (obviously people will have cameras with them at festivals- this was in 2009 pre smart phone era)

I'm just worried that his thought processes seem to exclude reality... he's never had any MH problems before and this is extremely out of character. At one point he started talking about how 'they' could buy a house accross the road to set up cameras to spy on us but then he backtracked and said he was being light hearted.
He doesn't want to go to the doctor as when I said something may have gone a bit wrong with his thought processes and we can get it sorted he said he could live with it. Plus he still believes its true although I may have put a chink into how much by some of my questioning.
Any advice plse

He sounds like he needs help. My feelings is dont disagree or try to challenge him as you wont change his mind through rationality. Persuade him to get support, might be easily dealt with trough skillful therapy. You can request he has it. Totally legit to want a mentally stable DH. Good luck, must have been quite scary!

Im sorry, I would call 111 and get advice. Don't do it secretly, tell him you're worried and need to talk to someone in case plan b is right. And don't be afraid to escalate - if you talk to 111 and they suggest watching/waiting, don't be worried about going to A&E if things become unmanageable during the night.

You can always talk to doctors about the way someone's health is affecting you. Right now, to keep the show on the road you're having to manage his delusions (and doing very well BTW- if they go past what you can do though that's not your fault).

Sounds really worrying but you’ve handled it well so far. I’d try and speak to your local Crisis team. They’ll be able to give you they best advice. They won’t see him unless he wants to or unless he is so unwell that he’s no longer safe. Which it doesn’t sound like he is at the moment. But things can deteriorate quickly sometimes. Or they can rumble on for ages without getting worse.

If he gets worse suddenly, then phone 999.

I have OCD with intrusive thoughts and whilst the nappy comment sounds as though it could be that the rest sounds more like psychosis.

My thoughts can sometimes worry me that they are voices as I have health anxiety however they are very clearly my inner voice and OCD you don’t really lose touch with reality in a sense what you know where your doing is stupid but you can’t stop but seems as though your husband really
Believe these things

@JorisBohnson2

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I'm not sure he's in crisis at the moment, he only told me all this as I told him a big secret from the past, before Iet him, and he must have felt a need to share something secret of his too. I asked him if he worries 'they' are watching him in-between the festival/party incidents and he said no, he doesn't worry or think about them much then as he assumes they'll only be active then. Although he did make a comment about them moving into our street one day which he later backtracked on.

He seems to have accepted the idea that he might have got some things wrong as I've explained perception cannot always be 100% relied upon, we've called this plan b, so although he still mainly believes the original version, he has accepted it may not be real which made him confused and sad

He's not a big drug taker but may have dabbled at festivals and parties particularly ones before kids or when the kids were not there. However I've seen people lose it on drugs but go back to normal after it seems very unusual to maintain the delusion.

What concerns me most is he's externalising voices where people are mocking him , thinking completely strangers are talking about his sex life or him as a person. He's so convinced these are true he offered to record it next time.

I haven't seen any paranoia outside of this specific situation/theme but if his brain can do this once it could again yeah?

I'll speak to mind tomorrow.

Op, do some reading up on what “hearing voices” actually is. It is not a type of confused thinking. People who hear voices actually do hear voices as loud and clear as external noises. The issue is the part of brain that receives external noise, and processes it, gets “crossed wired” with the part of the brain that processes our internal voices that are thoughts. The research identified this through imaging where those that were having psychotic episodes had both receptors in the brain light up when they were reading to themselves silently or actively having delusional thoughts. He isn’t externalising the thoughts- they are external as far as his brain processes are concerned. He simply won’t be able to tell the difference. My ExH actually recorded the neighbours persecuting him ( mocking him, threatening him). He played it to the mental health team while I was there. We all only heard background vacuuming, distant voices, but he was actually interrupting the recoding with “there, I told you, they’re threatening me” type commentary. It is quite unbelievable if you don’t witness it. My ExH pulled the sitting room apart looking for where the people were hiding.

My worry is that this has blown up so suddenly. He may be saying he's been thinking this for a long time, but I think that's probably unlikely. It is part of the delusion that 'I've always thought this'.

Delusions are not that uncommon, and they can be very overwhelming. The key is that the sufferer believes them to be completely true, unlike say a hallucination that they may be able to reflect afterwards was not real, or even intrusive thoughts which they might well identify as such. The delusion tends to persist despite logic or evidence, unlike an intrusive thought which can be reasoned with.

The great thing is that he's told you. I agree with pp he needs some MH intervention. Delusions in themselves aren't necessarily dangerous but they can be incredibly isolating, and depending on the delusion can be very frightening. Your husband's delusion sounds very upsetting. The fact that he's told you is helpful, as he will feel less alone. I hope you are able to find help.

This is definitely NOT mental health advice but is really fascinating interviews and discussions with people who have had serious delusions of different kinds. For anyone interested. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m0001d95

I think it sounds like intrusive thoughts a form of OCD, his brain is making up stories to try and explain the thoughts.
My husband had something similar happen to him, not as extreme but he became paranoid about people listening to or trying to barge in when he was peeing and ended up being physically unable to go unless at home and
alone in the building.
He had EMDR treatment on the NHS that cured him.

That's actually very interesting as I don't remember him feeling stressed or worried at the festivals. Could they be fabricated memories? Not even a ' do you think those people are weird'. Not that I even recall us meeting anyone camping by us apart from the ones we already identified as friends of friends.

Yet he asked me last night if I got a bad vibe from these people.

Sorry that was supposed to be a reply to @PermanentTemporary

I don't know that much about it but when my husband had delusions and talked to me about them, they always had a history - 'I haven't talked about it before but I've always thought X' kind of stuff.

This could be intrusive thoughts which are to do with ocd in some people around what happened previously. First stop is gp as he can at least give him medication to dial down the paranoia and obsessive thoughts.I’m not an expert though but I know a fair bit about intrusive thoughts and ocd.

@PermanentTemporary

I don't know that much about it but when my husband had delusions and talked to me about them, they always had a history - 'I haven't talked about it before but I've always thought X' kind of stuff.

So it's unlikely it really happened at all these festivals, this is part of the delusion?

Hiya love, I’m a mental health professional.

I’ve read all of your comments and would suggest thinking about a few things. Has his behaviour changed lately in general? It may be a psychotic episode in which he believes these things have been happening for 12 years but they haven’t really. Has he been odd lately? Saying odd things? Behaving strangely? Being more guarded?

When I use the word psychotic, it just means seeing or hearing or smelling or “knowing” things that aren’t real apart from to your partner. (Just explaining because some people find the word scary or dangerous which isn’t necessarily the case).

It’s great your husband has told you, unless you have immediate worries for his or your safety (which it doesn’t sound like you do) the best thing to do is speak to the GP tomorrow and pass on the information. The GP will likely refer him for a rapid assessment with the mental health team. They will try to treat him in the community in the first instance, likely offering anti psychotic medication and looking at a referral to a team specialising in first episode psychosis. (These teams are excellent).

You may also find mind helpful. From my experience calling 111 will not make a huge difference but if you feel you need to talk to someone you can.

Also, think about how you are going to talk to your husband about your concerns, it’s good he trusts you and you need to be honest with him to maintain that trust but he’s likely to struggle with being challenged as his experienced are very real.

Finally, if this is at all reassuring, I remember when we were at university we were told something like 1 in 6 people hear voices in their lives so it’s not as odd as it feels. Not everyone ends up “sectioned” so don’t worry about this just yet, first step is to ring the GP.

Good luck and take care x

Have you noticed anything in the twelve years prior? Has he hidden it for all this time? Does he work a job and function otherwise ok?
He does need to see a psychiatrist though and they can talk through a possible diagnosis, medication and therapy.

@TolkiensFallow

Hiya love, I’m a mental health professional.

I’ve read all of your comments and would suggest thinking about a few things. Has his behaviour changed lately in general? It may be a psychotic episode in which he believes these things have been happening for 12 years but they haven’t really. Has he been odd lately? Saying odd things? Behaving strangely? Being more guarded?

When I use the word psychotic, it just means seeing or hearing or smelling or “knowing” things that aren’t real apart from to your partner. (Just explaining because some people find the word scary or dangerous which isn’t necessarily the case).

It’s great your husband has told you, unless you have immediate worries for his or your safety (which it doesn’t sound like you do) the best thing to do is speak to the GP tomorrow and pass on the information. The GP will likely refer him for a rapid assessment with the mental health team. They will try to treat him in the community in the first instance, likely offering anti psychotic medication and looking at a referral to a team specialising in first episode psychosis. (These teams are excellent).

You may also find mind helpful. From my experience calling 111 will not make a huge difference but if you feel you need to talk to someone you can.

Also, think about how you are going to talk to your husband about your concerns, it’s good he trusts you and you need to be honest with him to maintain that trust but he’s likely to struggle with being challenged as his experienced are very real.

Finally, if this is at all reassuring, I remember when we were at university we were told something like 1 in 6 people hear voices in their lives so it’s not as odd as it feels. Not everyone ends up “sectioned” so don’t worry about this just yet, first step is to ring the GP.

Good luck and take care x

Thanks for your reply, I don't think his behaviour has changed a lot but he's recently started working again in a serious job after many years as a SAHD. He's been quite exhausted and found the work challenging. Apart from that no odd behaviour and it was really out the blue.

That was the other thing I wondered - whether he was particularly stressed as stress can be a trigger. Please do seek help as these things are easier to treat earlier on.

A few posters have recommended going private for treatment- if you are in the Uk, I would actually stick with the nhs for mental health in the first instance as the mental health system is so much bigger than just a private psychiatrist. There are also nurses, social workers, occupational therapists, psychologists, employment specialists, crisis teams, specialists in early psychosis, groups for those who hear voices etc that you won’t be able to access privately. If you find a huge waiting list for a particular treatment (usually psychology) then you could go private for that particular element.

Just to say that a pp wasn't correct that a GP won't do anything if you contact them with concerns about someone else - they absolutely will.

@Catawaul is right - especially with mental health where the person likely lacks capacity to contact the gp themselves

@TolkiensFallow best reply I've read so far. You could have been talking about my husband's exact experience. I have been amazed at the support we have received from the NHS and yes, psychosis is a very scary word but with the right help it needn't be and sectioning someone is always a last resort.

Yes l agree, it does sound like a symptom of OCD.
I would encourage him to speak to a doctor, it is nothing to be ashamed about.

My ex had a psychotic episode at a party which was brought on by drugs it was honestly terrifying. I don't have any good advice but I hope he can get help in case this gets any worse

Many psychotic episodes are brought on by drug use. You need to get help for your partner. Your partner cannot rationalise that these thoughts are not real at the moment as they feel real to him. Please do not leave him with your daughter and get him the help he needs before he does hit crisis.

Yes this is very odd... definitely delusional! He needs to seek help before it gets worse.. sounds like maybe psychosis? A therapist will be able to help.. x