Just wondered if anyone with PTSD/Complex PTSD fancied a chat?

[pepsiandshirley]

I've accepted I'min this for the longish haul, have a great therapist, get out and do plenty of exercise, spend time in green spaces, stay positive etc etc.

But I'd just love to speak to someone/anyone else who understands what a bitch trauma is (any kind, whatever the cause - trauma is trauma!)

Wrt inherited mental illness..I've read a lot about attachment lately and my personal view is that than mental illness being passed down it's the consequences of poor attachment which then create issues.

I believe my mother has a personality disorder and I know she went through a period of separation from family (medical quarrantine) at a developmentally sensitive age. My brother has severe mental health issues and I do wonder if there's a link between her response to him and how he developed.

My mental health was always much more robust, but from what I can tell I was a much more docile infant/child and needed less interaction from my mother. I think my brother was naturallly agitated as a baby and my mother (who isn't really capable of putting other people's needs before her own) couldn't respond to him, which contributed to the development of his own personality disorder.

That's just a theory from an attachment point of view, but makes sense in terms of passing down mental illness..

Wood am now about two thirds of the way through the body keeps the score.

Wow thanks so much for the recommendation.

I'm really interested in the idea of reclaiming links to the body post-trauma. There's a lot of good talk about yoga in this book - does anyone have any experience with this for post-trauma?

I've heard the theory of inherited trauma too. In the book "They F#@$ you up" written by a child psychologist, he very much supports the nurture rather than nature theory for most mental illness. I think this is more along the lines of attachment theory. In the book he says that schizophrenia is the most geneticly linked mental illness and that even with that there is only a genetic link in 50%of cases.

Interestingly regarding yoga, whilst I was off sick with PTSD I started doing bodyballance, which is yoga, tai chi and pilates, but it flared up an old back injury. I found swimming really helped though.

I do worry about passing on the trauma in some way to the DCs.

My grandad had ptsd from experiences in concentration camp and WW2. He was a psychiatric nurse upon return mainly working with those returning from the war. I suppose most people coming back must've had trauma.

I've read the Oliver James boo, too nolonger. I find it interesting and you're right he prescribes pretty much everything to upbringing. His book made me bristle a bit, though, partly because of the careless way he damned the parenting of depressed mothers but also because he espoused his own parents great parenting despite explaining that he was favoured and given opportunites over his three sisters due purely to being male

But I digress, as that doesn't really have much to do with trauma (although it did in my case - favoured older brother taught not to respect less-favoured younger sister with abusive consequences).

Abbey, that's interesting about your grandad..I have wondered if there are any trends in the way the babyboomer generation were raised that might link to trauma, it may well have been researched..

I've seen the adverts for the new series of one born every minute today which made me feel queasy. I'm in a group chat with some friends and they're talking about the new episode (which I think was on tonight) and reading it has made me feel so panicky I'm having to take one of my propranolol tablets.
I really need to see someone about the traumatic birth I went through. Even if it's just a debrief. Has anyone had one of those? What was it like?

Hey pretend, sorry to hear of your experience :( it was OBEM that set me off when I was pregnant 2nd time round and lead me to seek an ELCS rather than attempt natural childbirth again..

I have had a birth debrief, it was 6 years ago now. I didn't have it at the hospital I had the traumatic birth in as I chose a different hospital 2nd time around, but the debrief was part of the process of them agreeing the ELCS.

I took my notes along and the sr midwife read through them with me and explained what things meant and how things had happened.

It didn't upset me and she was very warm and encouraging. For me it was just a hoop to jump through on the way to getting the ELCS so I'm not sure if it helped emotionally. Detinitely worth trying for counselling though if you can find someone to help.

Thank you pepsi, I'm finding this thread really useful.

It has helped me realise I do have elements of c-ptsd. As I said I don't feel able to describe it as such as the root cause of the trauma is an illness and my own body, but the fact it's reoccurring (and has caused significant though temp issues several times) means I can't ever fully escape.

I'm dealing with it right now as I'm pregnant, or was, I may be loosing it, and the condition needs controlling in early pregnancy. But that can be a battle of your gp isn't great.

Im going to have to say it - its only hypothyroidism - but I got it young, at uni, not recognised for some time, was put through hell on various antidepressants and the nature of the illness affects your social interactions and capabilities as you just start fading away. I did anyway. And it's symptoms involve paranoia, depression, mild dementia. This was the most distressing part while away at uni.

During my first pregnancy, I'd just found out about managing the condition in early pregnancy (not commonly known by gps) to avoid mc and possibly mildly affecting iq but I think it's more if you're not yet on medication, but the fucking brand I was on turned out to be faulty, I found at 12 weeks. Luckily the gps were amazing and kept raising it though it just never caught up till I switched brands. Then I was too high.

I'm not re-living that though ironically. Im reliving the exact feelings of when I was at uni.

My bloods were forgotten at an appointment on Friday; as they pregnant seems to be failing I really could have done with knowing what they were. An amazing nurse today tried to see if she could get other bloods done that day retested. She couldn't but she told me that I had every right to be feeling how I was feeling and that I was amazingly calm.

Regarding baby boomers - my personal key issue is being dismissed. Not listened to, not heard. That is a trigger. I bet many of you could identify with that too. E.g. Child birth, childhood abuse. I've turned into a tiger on my dh for hinting at being dismissive / critical of anything linked to me reasonably managing my health before (e.g. Pacing) and I now know why.

The post war generation were taught to be tough, stiff upper lip, not admit to depression and anxiety. Being a hypochondriac was a no no in my family. If you read a lot of modern child care books such as how to talk/listen to children or things by Oliver James, not dismissing or ignoring feelings or distress is important, so the child doesn't learn to dismiss them selves or others. This isn't molly coddling or being permissive, this is listening and empathising.

I'll stop now, but it's helpful to be able to get all that out.

Hi doodle,

I'm so sorry to hear your pregnancy is under threat - how are you getting along at the moment?

Hypothyroidism is a nasty thing to have at any age - especially when you're young and should be full of vitality. I have no experience of it myself, but I have pernicious anaemia which is also an autoimmune disease and I know how terrible the dementia/depression symptoms are when it isn't well controlled. I can't imagine how much worse hypothyroidism is when it flares up and your meds aren't correct.

I can relate to everything you say re: being dismissed, I think it was very typical of the baby boomer generation, as you say. Certainly it contributes to the entire headf*ck of my childhood, because not only did I go through multiple traumas (most of which my parents knew about) there as never, every any emotional support forthcoming. I was not allowed to talk about those things.

Emotional support is key to resilience and can be a protective factor against PTSD so it's not suprising that those of us who suffered traumas and then were expected to cope alone and never speak of our problems developed this condition of being 'stuck'.

I agree re: Oliver James and his approach to managing feelings..it's interesting because OJ, my Dad and my therapist are the same age and it's only my Dad who aspires to this terrible stiff upper-lip parenting which has damaged me so much. Seeing men of the same generation be able to talk about the importance of expressing feelings has been really liberating for me.

Hello, I've got CPTSD from an, um, troubled childhood, and also single incident PTSD from other single events.

In the midst of a series of real life events that have huge trigger potential for me, and really feel like I'm on a bit of a knife edge at the moment. The upside is that the real life events also have the potential to be massively freeing for me- some things have a real chance of resolving.

Hi Zazies and welcome.

Sorry to hear that you're having a tumultuous time right now, that sounds really promising about a potential resolution for you. I've you'd like to talk more about the details please feel welcome to do so, but equally if you'd rather stick to symptoms that's ok, too!

Just wondered if anyone has any experience of breathing techniques to help when their anxiety kicks in?

I've noticed that I get terrible anxiety at the top of my stomach and it's exactly at the point where my shallow breathing ends...trying to be really conscious of it and breathe into my diaphragm so I can free up the horrible clenched stomach feeling..

I used to do the same as you and count my breathing to keep it slow and measured. The best thing I found for this though was EFT (emotional freedom techneque)

Hello Pepsi

Thanks for the gentle welcome.

There's a breathing technique that Pema Chodron recommends in "When things Fall,Apart: Heart Advice for Troubled Times". It's also here. It's called Tonglen.

Basically you breath in the pain and suffering, then breath out compassion and joy.

So on your in breath, you feel and accept your own pain. I usually try to bring my awareness to the knot of anxiety in my tummy, exactly as you describe, and just let my muscles gently relax around it, accept the feeling. I don't try to move or shift the anxious feeling, I just let myself do-exist with it.

On the out breath, I let myself feel the joy that, even though I am feeling anxious, I am still here. The air still feels good my skin, life is still there for me.

Some people say you should imagine hot breath coming in to symbolize the turmoil, cool,breath going out to,symbolism compassion and calm.

Over time, I have come to realise that it's not a case that I am still here despite my anxiety, but that in part I am still here because of my anxiety- it has at times been a good guide to me about wither or not to do certain things, be around certain people etc.

You also mention yoga earlier Pepsi. I did 2.5 years of intensive yoga, back before I knew what was going on with me was complex PTSD/PTSD. It helped a lot, especially with the dissociation. I went fairly rapidly from doing a single class a week to doing 3 or 4 classes a week plus 2 self-practices every day. Plus a workshop at the weekend once a month and one or two week long holiday courses a year (basically 2 long classes a day). This was about 15 years ago.

It did make the connection between my mind and my body clearer to me, and gave me a great foundation for reading what is going on with my body and mind.

However, opening that door between body and mind when you have traumatic experiences behind that door(s), is intense. It became overwhelming for me.

I think if I was doing that same practice now, it wouldn't be overwhelming, because I have the background knowledge about PTSD, CPTSD, I have traced and integrated some of my traumatic experi3nces. I would also do it more gently rather than throw myself in like that.

But it was absolutely a lifesaver, one of the first things that helped me start integrating and processing my experiences.

So the promising resolution is this.

Put it simply, the instigator of my childhood trauma, my father, has died. I no longer have to have that feeling of looking over my shoulder. It is tremendously freeing.

Finding this out has been tumultuous for a number of reasons, but the skinny version is that I haven't seen him for many years. I made a brief attempt at reconciliation about a decade go, but he showed no insight or remorse, so I ran for the hills again.

About a month ago, my step sister traced me using a private detective.

He was at death's door, would I like to see him etc.

I said no. And I said why. That my father was a violent, abusive liar.

I wrote a brief but truthful email that took a long time to compose. During the drafting and redrafting of it I realised that my dad had successfully lied to his new family about why his first marriage broke up, why his small child was always distressed when he had access visits. During the writing of that email I shook and shook and shook. I could feel the waves of trauma that have been buried for nearly four decades.

I stood in the centre of my long buried fear and pain and anger and rage. And I stayed calm, I was articulate and accurate and truthful. I was unwaveringly loyal to the memory of my mother, the other victim of his violent abuse. I didn't let myself be manipulated. I put my safety and wellbeing first. I was compassionate to myself, something I have always struggled with. I refused to let his lies stand unchallenged.

It has been so unbelievably liberating.

But also draining. And just, well, unusual for me.

It's also much more complicated than it sounds above- there are years and years and levels and layers of the CPTSD causing experiences, and subsequent experiences, some of which were already processed, some of which still need processing.

But the thing is, prior to this I always mentally thought that there was a way through all the trauma. That I would find it, that I would find the path out. But now I feel that. I feel that everything will be ok. I feel my body with a solidity I have never had before. I feel my feet planted firmly and squarely on the ground.

So many things occur to me about how to describe how I feel inside. It's like the sun rising. Or getting to the top of a mountain and seeing the path down to a beautiful beach.

It's like the scene in Gravity where Sandra Bullock finally crash lands on earth and she stands up on the beach and the camera pans up over her. She's fought and run and thought and felt her way out and through so many things and she is finally on solid ground. She has found her feet and she can start walk to,forward in her life. And now her life, is her life, it's not conditioned by others.

Hi there. My brain is still not keeping up with all these posters and I really want to investigate this thread and all it's useful suggestions.

Until I do that, I want to say brilliant posts Zazies. Welcome to your new life! (I can relate a bit, after the death of someone close who triggered and re-triggered my PTSD. I don't think I felt like you though and couldn't describe it as eloquently as you have. Maybe I was too young).

It's only really been with age (and Mumsnet!) that I have understood about the PTSD.

Sorry, I don't seem to be able to work backwards through the thread. Just had to post this before I forget.

Hi Pepsi

wood I complely get what you mean about struggling to keep up. Sometimes just thinking feels like catching fog.

Zazies, thanks so much for your inspiring post, it really does give hope.

I personally belive that I'll get to the end of all of this too, someday, so it's great to hear how it's going for you.

Wood and nolonger - I know what you mean about keeping up, I struggle with that too, sometimes. I keep coming back to the thread when I feel more clearheaded.

Zazies - thanks so much for the yoga and breathing advice. I'm going to try yoga once a week. I exercise a lot at the moment but it's always running, I think I need something gentler but I'll try not to become obsessve about yoga.

I'm going to sort out my diet next week - I rely way too much on processed food, sugar, caffeine and sometimes alcohol. I need to put that behind me and start caring for my body properly.

I'm hoping that the fact that I can finally think about looking after my body is a sign that I'm progressing to a better place. It's either that or I'm just getting really desperate now!

I keep thinking about the body keeps the score, and all of the positive suggestions in it. I need to go start embracing my body as part of me again and be thankful for it instead of punishing it all the time.

Thanks for this thread all.

I haven't actually been diagnosed with complex PTSD but it certainly 'fits' me. I was diagnosed with OCD 8 years ago due to really horrific intrusive thoughts which had tipped me into feeling suicidal. I never 'disclosed' any of my childhood abuse (psychological/sexual/physical) to my GP at that point because I hadn't accepted it myself. I was referred for 12 sessions of NHS CBT which only just scratched the surface but at least helped me start to stumble out of the fog of the family dysfunction that I was in complete denial about.

We never got round to discussing the extremely traumatic birth and immediate death of my DD2 at 30 weeks from a lethal abnormality (I had to carry her for 2 weeks knowing she could die at any time) and this was after we had been told at 20 weeks that she had a pretty big problem which although not life threatening would involve a lot of operations from birth so I had done my traumatic bonding with her. Especially after having to go through 2 weeks of hell waiting for the amnio results which came back clear.

DD1 was seriously ill 3 months afterwards and we nearly lost her too as GP misdiagnosed her. She was blue lighted to hospital and we were told it was 50:50 she'd pull through.

As soon as she got out of hospital, I realised I was pregnant, another shock. Twins and I was so not prepared. They were born 10 months after we lost DD2 after a very high risk pregnancy which involved lots of hospital admissions. They are teens now, one has SN and has extremely challenging behaviour so I have to remain on alert at all times to try to avoid meltdowns/arguments that can get out of hand and which have involved hospital treatment!

DH was also assaulted during this time. Our first night out after DD2's death, before DD1 got ill, and he was bitten by a thug who picked a fight with him in a bar. DH ended up having to throw him through a plate glass window. He was a known drug dealer and user so DH had to wait 6 months to get the all clear from HIV. Police asked DH to drop the assault charges as he was under surveillance for dealing so he did. He was later jailed for 10 years but I was terrified that he would find out where we lived and come and get us in the night.

I did not grieve for DD2 until I started therapy with a private therapist 5 years ago (we lost her 16 years ago) as I had never been 'entitled' to any feelings of my own. The only ones that mattered were my mother's.

I was also raped as a young adult and left with an STD. I never thought of it as rape as I thought it was my fault for drinking, although I hardly drank and years later I started to suspect that my drink was spiked as I remember coming to with the bastard on top of me and not being able to move, totally paralysed, then passing out again and had no memory of going to his room or returning to my room (had never heard of drink spiking then). This was a live in job in a hotel, the 'rapist' was a visiting area manager who used to check up on the hotels in the chain and he only stayed for one night. He was in his 50's, bald and butt ugly, there was no way I was attracted to him. He had left by the time I started work the next morning.

I have seen 5 private therapists in total including regression therapy, EMDR (for the sexual abuse) and psychosynthesis. They have been very helpful in determining that I am not actually crazy and I have good reason to feel like I do but no where close to a 'cure'. I moved from therapist to therapist hoping they would give me a different answer that I was this crazy, nutter that I thought I was as I was brought up to believe.

On the NHS, I have had the CBT, an anxiety workshop and used to see a psychiatrist every 3 months who would say 'well you seem to be functioning well, keep up the private therapy, we'll see you again in 3 months'! After about a year of this, I decided not to bother anymore as even seeing a psychiatrist used to compound the feeling of 'shame' that I was mentally ill and it was pointless. I was signed off by CAMHS as they said there was little they could do to help me. I function, just about, and in great internal distress, you see.

Last year, I was pointed into the direction an anxiety and trauma specialist clinic in London which only accepted NHS referrals and has been said to achieve great things. I asked my doctor for a referral and he said that he would do it as I met the criteria. He had never heard of the place. 8 months later, I have just been told that the PCT will not fund it as they want me to have another assessment by a psychiatrist. So back on the 'non-urgent' waiting list I go!

To add to this 6 years ago, 3 months after the birth of my youngest (4 living DC in total now), I was driven to finally confront my mother about my childhood as I was having my first lot of CBT at that point, and my therapist pointed out that I was allowing my mother to psychologically abuse my own DCs like she had done to me. Combination of post natal hormones gone haywire, sleep deprivation and just the rage of a lioness as I would never have dared stand up to my mother prior to that. I also brought up her preventing any contact with my bio father who left when I was 5/6 as I had recently met him after a 32 year absence and he told me some shocking stuff. Whole family closed ranks and finally cut me off completely. That was extremely traumatic for me as well as I never thought they would actually keep it up (almost 4 years total NC now) and I still was desperate to be part of the family (stockholm syndrome probably) along with the guilt and shame that I had upset my mother. DC have also been affected. Finally moving on from that now but the emotional flashbacks (had no idea that's what they were), hypervigilence and the feeling of aloneness are overwhelming sometimes.

I am ashamed to say in my darkest times I have wished that I had cancer rather than this torment in my mind. That would be my only way out as suicide was not an option due to not being able to leave my DC. At least I could die without them thinking I didn't love them enough not to stick around. It sounds pathetic written down I know.

'D'H is not much support. He has not suffered with any PTSD even though he went through the same as me with DD1 and DD2. I remember him being furious with me when I ran out of the hospital room when DD was had to be held down by 4 nurses so they could intubate her through her nose and she was screaming blue murder and pulling it out. He is from a culture that does not 'do' mental health issues. His mother scrubbed clothes for 7 kids in a river as she had no washing machine ffs!

So sorry that others are stuck in this hell.

pandora you've been through such a lot. With regards to the CCG funding I've applied for this for people (not mental health) and know what a difficult application process it can be. You have to very clearly demonstrate why the persons needs can not be met by any local services, including what treatments have not worked. Even then its not a garuntee. Would your GP go through the funding application with you so you can check if everything you have tried is included.

Thank you Carer. I did meet all the criteria, including prior treatments, except for the fact that I will not take medication (so cannot prove it did not work). Cannot take 'mind altering' substances due to fear of going crazy due to childhood conditioning that I was a psychopath (have gone over and over evidence to dispell that myth in therapy but it's been hard).

Has anyone on here been able to hold down a job? I literally walked out of my last one 18 months ago. Open plan office, panic attacks at my desk, used to jump in the air if anyone approached me from behind, had to make excuses to leave meetings because I used to have to literally grip the chair to stop myself feeling that I was going to fall off. Had to tell my manager in the end that I suffered from anxiety. They were so nice about it but the embarrassment was too much and I kept worrying that they thought I was a nutter.

I am 45. I haven't been able to stay in jobs for more than a year or 2 as as soon as I got 'comfortable', I started worrying that people would realise that there was something wrong with me. Really feel now that I will never be able to hold down a job again.

Hello Wood, I think the fact I got a chance to stand up to him and say no made a big difference. If it had just been about him dying it would have just been re-triggering. It was just chance/good fortune I got that opportunity.

It was my step-sister who traced me. I think of all my step-family, my step-sister was the only one who ever had an inkling that there was more to things than met the eye. She was certainly the only one I ever trusted. She acted out of genuine compassion- that I should have a chance to say goodbye before he died. Because I felt that compassion for me, I was able to say "no" and give reasons.

Hello Porky sorry to heat of your experiences and also of your travails with the NHS.

I must admit I found dealing with the NHS extremely frustrating and re-traumatising. They have so much insistence on medication and the system is Kafkaesque when you try to get any real help, which is then really limited or unsuitable. It's Catch-22 combined with Groundhog Day.

One of the things outside the NHS that really helped me was going for grief counselling with Cruse. A good GP recommended them at one point I was really struggling.

(My mum had breast cancer and I looked after her in the terminal stages. Her death and looking after her was very traumatic in itself, it also acted as a trigger for a lot of the childhood stuff)

I just realised that it might be like untying a really complex know- start with one isolated piece and see how it affects the other things. So I went to Cruse for grief counselling. It was really, really good.

It helped that it was a volunteer- I didn't feel like I as imposing on anyone. If you are free to go see them during normal working hours they can normally see you quite quickly, as their high demand is outwith working hours. Also, you can go for as long as you need it. The counsellor was very happy for me to talk about issues brought up by the death of my mum, as well as my grief over her loss.

So maybe Cruse could help?

It didn't cure my CPTSD or PTSD, but it did give me some breathing space, which I was able to use to start addressing other things (doing reading round PTSD and CPTSD, then get rape counselling, start looking after myself better).

I'm not at the end of the road yet by any means, but I do feel like I've gotten to the top of the hill. Cruse was a big part of that.

*really complex knot

And I did hold down a job for years Pandora. I did it by channelling that rage of lioness you mention. First of all to protect my mum (who couldn't work, long story) and then after that by working in a job where I could channel righteous indignation and anger. I worked in educational charities, ensuring access for impoverished children, then in international development, for a charity that worked with vulnerable mothers & children and sexually exploited people (there is sadly a lot of overlap in those groups). I think it was very therapeutic to be able to channel that rage I had had bottled for so long into something productive and protective of others.

I'm not working just now because I don't need to financially. Also, the rage did burn out to an extent after many years. But in good way- like I had managed to process some of it, and having processed some of the rage I was able to look a bit deeper at looking after myself IYSWIM.

I want to concentrate on integrating my traumatic experiences into my lived experiences as much as possible. Then I will be able to find a line of work that makes me happy rather than just processes my rage.

One of the things that has given me most hope is this book "Unlocking the Emotional Brain: Eliminating Symptoms at Their Roots Using Memory Reconsolidation". It is useful to read in continuation of the Pete Walker stuff on how to treat an emotional flashback when it happens.

Basically, the reason I found it so helpful was that it posits that a flashback is your brain trying to heal. It remembers it has had a deep seated bad experience that is colouring your life and how you relate to it. It is also noticing on some level that that bad experience is out of sync with other ongoing experiences in your life, and wants to relearn/rewrite that memory so you can feel more comfortable and safe in your everyday life (e.g. not think that people will notice you're different beneath the facade). So a flashback is actually an opportunity to heal if handled right, not just a symptom to be avoided/cured.

If you are having flashbacks, it is also sometimes because you are, generally speaking, in a place where you are safe enough to start re-processing. When you're really not safe, your mind/body interprets the traumatic memory as a correct interpretation of the world around it and let's you keep on going on that basis.

That certainly chimes with my life- it's been when things start to be going well that the flashbacks etc happen. It used to be that I interpreted that as fate dealing me another blow just as I was getting clear of danger. But now I see it as a signal that I am clear of danger, and that I am somewhere safe enough to start paying attention to myself.