Help without Anti Depressants

[SugarHut]

I'd really like some (kind,helpful) advice please, as I've seen some very harsh and condescending things written where people seem to genuinely be seeking help.

I have a 5yr old boy, and being very honest, I've never really even liked him...I feel like if I could press a button and it would take me back to never have fallen pregnant then I would press it like a shot. I make myself be as good a mother as I can, I hug him and tell him I love him, but I feel nothing. I don't feel repulsion, or hatred, but I feel nothing towards him. It makes me so sad...mainly for him, although I feel I hide it well and he's none the wiser. I long for the 2 days a week my mother has him when I can be me. I'm not a drippy "woe is me" failure, I'm a very strong woman, he's in private school, I have a very good job, which is not even very demanding...on the outside, I look like I have it made....but I wanted a girl so very badly, and every day I feel disappointed.

He's very smart, he gets outstanding reports, his behaviour is excellent, they are talking about putting him up a year in school...all things other parents tell me are amazing. On the outside I smile and gush and agree...on the inside I couldn't care less. I hate it.

Does this sound like depression? I can't bring myself to take any medication, so please don't advise me too. And please don't lecture me for "you shouldn't have had a child if you only wanted a girl" yes I did...but trust me if I knew I'd be this permanently disengaged and hate it to the extremes I do, then I would not have had him and saved us both. No pointless battering me for a decision I can not reverse, I feel bad enough as it is.

I look at other children at the school, and if I look at one of his little girl friends, I imagine it was my child and I get overwhelmed with these warm loving feelings, I want to pick her up and cuddle her, take her shopping, brush her hair, make cakes with her, read stories with her, I feel overwhelming pride and love even though it's a random child, then I look at him and want to cry. I am looking at him right now, and I picture him being a girl and I feel like there is so much love in me for a girl and he's just this child in my house that I don't even feel related to that's ruined my life.

What do I do??? Are there any non medication routes that actually work if I am depressed? Does it even sound like depression? I know these feelings aren't normal, and I know it shouldn't have taken me 5 years to say something about it. But anyone who has had a remotely similar experience please help me. x x x

Harrap...

1. this post is nearly 200 entries long, at first, I was explaining, quietly to people who had no idea. They would then persist and bang on, side track the issue with their irrelevant instructions of a 30 second fix, send the post off into a useless tangent, which I would keep trying to get back on track because you should really know this is being really helpful to me. They still harp on, and whilst stating "be quiet, you have no concept of this" usually gets a predictable fishwife type response, it does usually nip them in the bud, and let the 99% of helpful people continue, so therein lies my reasoning.

2. no I haven't...worth me getting?

3,4) absolutely

5. Majorly. I have always achieved as damn near to perfection in everything I do. I have to be the best in anything I care about....not to show off, but it grates on me if for example, if I get 98% on a test, if someone else gets 99%. I am used to being top in everything. Nearly all of my family are like this, I am an ex national gymnast, my cousin a superbike champion, another a world class polo player, another runs one of the most successful hedgefunds in Europe. We have been raised that you excel, that perfection is achievable, so don't make excuses, go and get it.

6. Perhaps...I am quite a flexible person in other areas of my life

Cameleon, as you persist in posting.....

1. obviously
2. we don't believe that, we are living proof of it 3)obviously 4)too laughable to comment 5)both can apply

x x x

Working, you see? I do believe you are sharing your perspective of someone who had a similar experience to Sugarhut in what relates to the feelings towards your child. However -and I have read your other post- you see it as a result of your own experiences too. You see it as a whole, not only a medical problem of attachment

I have never thought of Sugarhut as a not very pleasant human being due to her rudeness. Nor was the fact that she cannot feel love for her child. That makes me feel compassion for her too. It is about everything else she is posting and the fact she cannot see, despite her self-proclaimed intelligence, how offensive it can be, and how much ignorance is diplayed by expressing it as she does. These are symptons of problems I believe she should be looking at in order to be able to understand what is going on with her attachment problem.

Again, harrap has expressed it quite well. English is not my mother tongue, not even my second language so I may not be great at expressing myself in here without reviewing and editing my sentences.

This has been a tough thread for everyone to read, but some great suggestions have been made.

Sugar, looking into Anna Freud's resources sounds like the best idea. It seems to me that psychoanalysis would be far more beneficial to you than CBT or traditional counselling. You're an intelligent woman who values education, so why not access some of the literature available? From a quick Google (of 'Anna Freud pdf'), I can see there are some PDFs available online which explain her theories. You could print these off, take your time to read them in advance of talking to a therapist, just to prepare yourself for what kind of questions therapy might entail. Plus, there are plenty of books relating to her work on Amazon.

There's a big difference between being defensive and building a line of defence around yourself, psychologically, which I think you have done, through assigning a lot of importance to intelligence, education and success, whether at work or manifested by a happy childhood. We all build these defences - it's perfectly natural, but can become destructive if we build walls which we can't climb back over, if you see what I mean. For me, my defence is being agreeable to the point of submissive. My therapist has given me some exercises to do to help me become more assertive. That scares me a bit, because I protect myself by avoiding all conflict and agreeing to everything. I know my submissiveness is not normal or healthy. And - flame me if you wish - I would say the same about the way you have dealt with some posters. I don't mean that unkindly - it's behaviour symptomatic of fear, and that's a horrible place to be in.

I don't think you're horrible or lack empathy (you wouldn't care about not loving your son if so), but therapy will help you to see your reactions and thoughts in a different light. Good luck.

Sugar, stop bullying people off a public thread. MN is a community and you have made frequent and unprovoked personal attacks on others. This is neither pleasant nor acceptable especially on what could have been such a mutually supportive thread! Yes, you are the OP but you do not set the rules or get to make demands on others. They will post what they will. If you want 1:1, PM, mail people or pay for proper therapy. This is not it.

I have had a quick look at this Anna Freud place....all I can find is somewhere that helps the actual child...is this what you mean? I don't want to take him anywhere.....

x x x

The best thing to do is give them a call to ask about what services they provide for parents. I see they have a telephone consultation service for parents, so obviously they do have staff which perform that kind of service.

I can have a half hour (maximum) initial phone call...then they are London based....I am in Norfolk. Although the perhaps would know who to contact in my area? Worth a ring....

x x x

Definitely worth a call. They are pretty much the leaders in the field, so they would hopefully know of other services nearer to you.

At the risk of talking about Sugar as if she is out of the room-I find her inflammatory language intriguing.

Sugar, you must be aware of the effect of using, "moron", "chimp" and "stupid".

It goes without saying you are articulate so I'm wondering why you used them?

It could be as simple as you are irritated and don't give a monkey's (as it were) but it comes across as a want/need to alienate/dominate.

Whatever's going on here, Sugar has been dealing with a lot, pregnancy, disappointment, unsatisfactory relationship, relationship breakdown and unsatisfactory contact arrangements she clearly does not feel supported by the alpha mums at school and for reasons she has explained, she can't share with her mother.

For what it's worth, I don't get an "entitled" vibe - and I'm not sure I get a "depressed" vibe either, I get a "turmoil" vibe. I do think Sugar's son can only benefit if she gets some help and feels reasonably safe here. Then again we all need to feel safe and not fear getting a mouthful if we say the wrong thing so, maybe Sugar, if you come back, you could tone it down a bit.

By the time I have written a post there are several other posts...whatever else you've done you have instigated a very interesting thread!

If the AFC can't help you I should imagine they could make some suggestions. Good luck.

And apologies Sugar because as Harrap says I do speak about you as if you were not in the room; I am addressing most of my comments to other persons, who may have better skills communicating ideas to you.

You are getting lots of advice and perhaps something will be helpful and put you in the right direction to be able to enjoy the amazing life experience that feeling love for your child is. But more importantly, to address whatever damage to your child may come from this.

Camaleon you make a good point I guess it would have been more useful for me to ask, "are you aware of the effect etc?"

Really? You never said And the rest of us fawning plebs?? Breathtaking arrogance.

OP, I hope this thread is helping you but I think you are coming very, very close to having it deleted as you're sticking to the Talk guidelines.

Agree- "personal attacks", however cleverly worded, directly contravene MN guidelines. OP has made them frequently . MH issues never excuse this- look through any other MH threads and do you/have you ever seen so many casually dismissive and offensive remarks about fellow posters? It's positively toxic. I also would support the deletion of the entire thread, it does no credit to MN.

Anything off topic is being ignored going forward, if you want to discuss it, please start your own thread to your heart's content. That's what forums are for. To continually hijack something, of such an originally deep and mentally provocative nature, where most posters have been fabulous at tackling, challenging and addressing issues... and additionally that the OP repeatedly requests that is not persistently sidetracked, is incredibly rude, ignorant and disrespectful...but that's not apparent to you is it.

Thank you.

Sugar, I would copy and paste all of the advice you find useful into a Word doc right now, just in case the thread does end up getting deleted. Many posters have given great, insightful advice and it would be awful for all that to disappear.

And to reiterate, "personal attacks" are not allowed on MN. Maybe you need to look elsewhere if this is a challenge.

No, I won't Estelle....it would be interesting to see whether it does. Because I think that some posters on here, have been astronomical in their advice, to a depth of understanding me that I did not in any shape or form expect. No credit to Mumsnet, what a joke. I would say the comments and discussions between 99% of these posters and myself show quite how phenomenal a tool something like this can be.

A few, who through being precious over the fact that they haven't grasped the topic, who would for that sole purpose advocate the deletion of such helpful and heartfelt discussions would be a travesty.

x x x