Help without Anti Depressants

[SugarHut]

I'd really like some (kind,helpful) advice please, as I've seen some very harsh and condescending things written where people seem to genuinely be seeking help.

I have a 5yr old boy, and being very honest, I've never really even liked him...I feel like if I could press a button and it would take me back to never have fallen pregnant then I would press it like a shot. I make myself be as good a mother as I can, I hug him and tell him I love him, but I feel nothing. I don't feel repulsion, or hatred, but I feel nothing towards him. It makes me so sad...mainly for him, although I feel I hide it well and he's none the wiser. I long for the 2 days a week my mother has him when I can be me. I'm not a drippy "woe is me" failure, I'm a very strong woman, he's in private school, I have a very good job, which is not even very demanding...on the outside, I look like I have it made....but I wanted a girl so very badly, and every day I feel disappointed.

He's very smart, he gets outstanding reports, his behaviour is excellent, they are talking about putting him up a year in school...all things other parents tell me are amazing. On the outside I smile and gush and agree...on the inside I couldn't care less. I hate it.

Does this sound like depression? I can't bring myself to take any medication, so please don't advise me too. And please don't lecture me for "you shouldn't have had a child if you only wanted a girl" yes I did...but trust me if I knew I'd be this permanently disengaged and hate it to the extremes I do, then I would not have had him and saved us both. No pointless battering me for a decision I can not reverse, I feel bad enough as it is.

I look at other children at the school, and if I look at one of his little girl friends, I imagine it was my child and I get overwhelmed with these warm loving feelings, I want to pick her up and cuddle her, take her shopping, brush her hair, make cakes with her, read stories with her, I feel overwhelming pride and love even though it's a random child, then I look at him and want to cry. I am looking at him right now, and I picture him being a girl and I feel like there is so much love in me for a girl and he's just this child in my house that I don't even feel related to that's ruined my life.

What do I do??? Are there any non medication routes that actually work if I am depressed? Does it even sound like depression? I know these feelings aren't normal, and I know it shouldn't have taken me 5 years to say something about it. But anyone who has had a remotely similar experience please help me. x x x

OP, you have called people things like chimp. Surely talking to people like that is also a travesty?

Ignore.......

You continue to prove your own point. Pointing out someone is attacking another is not "failing to understand the debate". It is confronting a bully on bullying.

OP, I think what some people are saying (and in doing so they are attempting to help you) is that your treatment of many posters here is, in itself, very unusual, and perhaps indicative of an abnormal mental state. You yourself have conceded that your mental state with regards to your (lack of) feelings for your son is abnormal, and so opening your mind to the possibility that there are other aspects of your behaviour which are worrying or unusual, might be able to help you further.

You have referred to your thread as:
'something, of such an originally deep and mentally provocative nature'
You have alluded to this more than once. And several times, you have stated that posters:
'haven't grasped the topic'

This is not an academic challenge, it is a message board for sharing ideas, opinions and advice. It is a public forum and, as such, will attract replies from all sorts of people; none of whom are trying to annoy you; all of whom are trying to help you.

Your lack of empathy is unusual, and possibly part of the problem. Perhaps you can explore this with your therapist, when you are able to see one.

Sugarhut, the American Mensa offers mental health services for MENSA members. Perhaps you can investigate whether there is an equivalent for British Mensa members.
You need help, your son needs help and this may be a solution to find someone you trust.

Oh, and by the way, did you mention you were a model?

So was I, this is the first time I have ever felt the need to mention it on MN it is not generally relevant to my life and posts.

Yawn....ignore......

camaleon has made a good suggestion re MENSA. What do you think about that Sugarhut?

You are refusing to engage with the idea that your behaviour and attitude is unusual, and that is your choice but ultimately, you are the only person here who will be affected by that, not any of us.

If you want to help yourself, you may need to open your mind a little more, in my opinion.

Sugar- yawn that you are...what, a model a lawyer/accountant whatever (hardly unusual on here)? And have some beautiful, clever and well-connected friends? Ditto. Not that this is necessarily what gives people substance. Or makes them interesting or enjoyable to be with. A little humility goes a long way.

Does your son have any male role models [for want of better word ] in his life OP ?

Basset...Lol :)

Yes, my friends are predominantly male, and my father is a big part x x x

Op- you know v little about "people like me". I have helped you on here and, like others contributed in good faith. I actually hadn't (till now) been the target of your attacks, but I HATE bullies - my mother was one (there, you know that about me now). Empathy is key.

I've seen and received such support on MN over the years and am incensed to see it exploited in this way with others dismissed or subject to ridicule simply for expressing their own heartfelt opinion or detailing their own experience. From which you could learn much, should you choose to open your eyes.

I have read all of this thread and followed it with interest over the last few days.
Bit of background:
-2 sons

• did have some gender disappointment issues
• had PND
• absolutely no medical expertise

Take or leave my thoughts.

You are clearly very bright but I very much doubt if your emotional intelligence matches your academic intelligence. This could be a positive thing because emotional intelligence can* be learnt, nurtured, developed. But of course you have to recognise that this is needed and be willing to put in the work and time.

*I recognise the high achiever/everything has to be 100%. Did me no good. Took most of my 30's to learn that 80/20 much better principle to live by. And guess what - that re-adjustment had absolutely no negative impact on my (very successful) career

*I had a very good childhood with well meaning decent parents who always did their best. What they failed to do was help me develop any kind of resilience for the real world. The real world where people get ill, things change, people die, children are born the 'wrong' sex ...
Another big lesson for my 30's

*They also held good behaviour as the holy grail. Perfectly behaved children were the ultimate goal. My sister and I both delivered - until my lovely sister went completely (and I mean completely) off the rails for a while. You have mentioned the other children in your family and how they are all perfectly behaved. Watch out for the little one who is desperate to let their real personality out.

• Im pretty convinced from what you've written that you've managed to hide your real feelings from your son - but the clock is ticking. He is still a little boy who doesnt ask too many questions. Come 9,10,11 and onwards he will increasingly look to you for guidance on how to live and love. You cant give him that the way you are now - and thats why you are so right to seek the help you need because otherwise you will pass on your problem through him.

Good Luck

Sugar, with the best will I can muster after reading through your thread, get on the phone to AFC, find a good local psychiatrist/psychologist/ therapist and get help before your son grows too much older.

I didn't just mention that I had been a model, I mentioned first, degrees, languages etc... You seem so hung up on personal appearance that I posted again about being a model. It is, quite frankly, the least of my achievements and was merely a way for me to fund myself through university.

My question 'are you a model?' was sarcastic as you have mentioned it umpteen times and everyone studiously ignored you as it was embarrassing.

What the hell is this 'Loose Women' you keep mentioning? It doesn't sounds very savoury.

You cannot ask people to leave a thread. You cannot dictate to people and be rude to them.

I should have added : my issues with gender disappointment do seem like a very distant memory now.
They were absolutely tied in to many of the things mentioned on this thread -
(1) control issues (I was meant to have a girl -'Oh its a boy, what do I do now.)
(2) completely unrealistic views on what having a child meant - and lack of understanding that all children are individuals and cannot and should not be pigeon holed by their sex.

I was very lucky in that I was able to unravel these issues pretty quickly.
And now I am a very irritating obsessed mother of boys. They are 6 footers now and I just gaze at them thinking 'they came from me - how clever am I '

Lol at the notion that I need sarcasm either pointed out or explained. Again, a perfect example.

Glad to see the thread back on track. Finally......sigh......

Mysweet you make some interesting points. And believe me, I know the clock is ticking. You're right, he's none the wiser now. Do I think he'll be none the wiser 3 years from now, absolutely not.

And perhaps there is something in not living in the real world. I'm fiercely independent, and actually thrive from being successful, I love that I can be a provider in such a big way for my child. But, I have never had a close friend or family member pass away yet, so never had anything like that to deal with. I was given my house, so never had to deal with a mortgage or really any biggies regarding financial responsibility. I work very little and spend a lot of time doing what others perceive as trivial to fill up my days, and do a lot of fundraising. Whilst it's not as such, the real world, on the other hand it is to me, as it's all I've ever known so it is. Maybe it contributes, maybe it's an easy but incorrect scapegoat to attribute things too.
The grown up children (ie my cousins) and myself have never gone off the rails so to speak. We are not like "the vicars children" by all means, but nothing of significance to report, so I don't see why perhaps one of our offspring would. It's possible, I don't have a crystal ball, but I would make an educated assumption based on our generation and the new children that it's unlikely. One did gamble for about 6 months, but he was 18 back then and it passed as a novelty before it became a problem.

It's also quite interesting, I worked tonight, and the subject of children came up..."Kelly (name changed) has just had her baby, it's a girl" Lots of whooping and squealing. Three other girls then volunteered, "thank god, can you imagine having a boy." Another then agreed, "I would be devastated to get a boy". Another, "god yeah, who actually wants a boy, how awful" Which is a freaky coincidence as I've never heard anyone say this around me before. Let alone a group speaking about it so casually. And to do so days after this thread starting seemed almost fate. They spoke as if it was obvious that you would want nothing other than a girl, the alternative being too hideous to imagine. I pipe up with my usual fake smile "Oh you're all wrong, I so pleased I have a boy, boys are so wonderful, so much easier" all the crap that I get told as a boy's mother...but I wanted to hug every one of them...the relief that not only this viewpoint shared by others, but is clearly to them largely accepted to say socially, and felt by many women (they are all childless.) I wonder now how many others go through the motions like I do and feel exactly the same, never speaking out through fear of being ostracised or ridiculed as a bad mother.

x x x

Sugar - it sounds as though in your mind your son is not merely a disappointment generwise, but actually an imposter. Which is significant because he bears more blame by keeping you from your ultimate goal of a having a daughter.

You are not outwardly hostile to him, but by keeping real love and emotion from him, he bears the brunt anyway - he is being punished. This makes you uncomfortable. But is that because you perceive it is unfair to him, or is it because you feel your hosility toward him may actually spill over at some point? You come across as a combative person. Is it just a matter of time before you make your son consciously aware of your antipathy toward him?

You consider your retention of love from your son as 'involuntary'. You find the idea of a thunderbolt moment when suddenly your feelings toward him will appear, seductive, because you can only accept a true relationship with him if it would feel the same, as natural, as loving a daughter.

Also to mention that by seeking to change your son's school - you may actually be punishing him further. He doesn't have his mother's love. His father is not present. He has only just started school and is forming real friendships we hope, and you're considering pulling the rug out from under him. You have your reasons for doing this, but is it in his best interest? Would you do it to a girl?

Is any of this close to the mark?

Maybe it would be safe to say you don't actually know what love really is just yet are you possibly scarred to love him incase he hurts you I think there is a love there as there is care and you do what you need to I knew someone in your position. Albeit not for as long as you but she would not try to do anything for her child I basically raised the child for 9 months

I never felt loved as a child my mother tried for a boy after 11 years of having 2 daughters then got me another girl I was a lonely child who like your son had everything I could wish for but there was still something missing she hugged me told me she loved me but it was just words from her My moms turning point came when I was 11 and diagnosed with cancer but that only lasted 2 years and I am still told to this day it is my fault it ruined my mother and furthers relationship
My mother been like this affected me badly I turned to drink and smoking at 15 and then carried in been one big problem in their life for 2 years I then went on to meet my now husband and after a few weeks months I started to love him I finally knew what love was and how nice it was to be loved I now have 3 girls and A son up in heaven I longed for a little boy to bring home and still do I would love one we done everything in our power to ensure it would be a boy but got girls. I live my girls to bits each one is an individual all with their own traits but I overcome the wanting a boy thank heavens and am happy I got lovely children

I have rambled on I know but thought I'd bang in how I felt from the other side of the problem as it has caused a lot of emotional problem and severe mental health problems I do think there Is a love there for sure it is finding it and recognising it you sound a strong person so I believe you can do this good luck to you and your little boy

Excellent post, BlackSwan.
Sugar, I think, as uncomfortable as this will be for you, BlackSwan has got it spot on: you are punishing him, for not being a girl, for fracturing something you held in you about your identity as a mother and the (desire to reproduce?) the connection between your own mother and yourself.
But no crime has been committed here. You are punishing him not for anything that he has done but for what he is.

What (I ask without any intention of prying or outing you) was the environment in which you were working and which produced such an extraordinary series of vitriolic anti-boy comments? It sounds overwhelmingly female. I wonder whether (and rather hope) they were just 'mirroring', jumping on a bandwagon, because that's how you interact in that environment.

I do think that a lot of women, especially before they have children or when they are pregnant with their first, want a girl. I suspect that now the social prestige of producing a son and heir no longer dominates, many women feel to some extent that they want what they know and they would feel better able to identify with a daughter. That said, most women would not be 'devastated' or find it 'awful' to have a boy. That, in its strength, is absolutely an unusual viewpoint, and I don't think it's particularly socially acceptable either, tbh. The environments you move in don't sound entirely typical.

I am the mother of two boys. I 'knew' very early on that they were boys and it was confirmed in both cases at scans before 20 weeks. I think that with both, I did have a tiny deflated moment of 'oh' - with the first because I think I, like many women, had imagined a daughter, and with the second because I had a (fabulous) boy already and would have quite liked one of each, I suppose. But five minutes later it was gone. My boys are quite simply the most beautiful children in the world, no doubt about it. They are 8 and soon to be 6 now. Motherhood, as they have grown, has just got better and better (and it was great from the start), with obvious and normal blips along the way. I love their company, I am completely enthralled with their processes of learning and getting to grips with the world, I obsessively write down the funny or curious things they say.

I say this not to gloat or boast, not because I think I am a particularly good or special mother - quite the opposite, in fact: I say it because it is an illustration of the usual process by which any disappointment re gender is simply and naturally overcome by the process of bonding. I know that for some women gender disappointment is not over in five minutes - I suspect there is a continuum, and you are at the very, very extreme other end.