to want to die without making anyone sad?

[Emerging]

(namechange) I wanted to post in the thread about supernatural experiences that was here a while ago, but it seems it is now quite old (things move fast in mumsnet!), and also maybe I should post this as it stands because I find myself in an massive dilemna and wanted to kind of reach out to others... both to ground myself, and to share an experience.

This is to do with the inner voice. Not inner ?voices? as in schizophrenia, but that one clear, pure, true voice at the core of your soul that you can only hear when everything else in your mind is silent.

I had a major life event recently (weeks ago) and something switched in my brain that had been building for a long time? to start just listening to that voice and following it. Keeping my mind quiet of all doubts and fears and just communicating quietly and honestly with that one small voice.

I quite quickly reached a point of what I can only describe as absolute stillness and contentment inside, with just my own ?outer? voice, and that small ?inner? voice quietly conversing like two old friends. I felt like I finally understood everything that life was about.

And then I received (days ago) what I can only describe as a gentle ?invitation?, to cross over. It wasn?t said in those words, but I knew the message in my heart, almost telepathically. It was an invitation to die, to step into ?the light?, to leave this world behind and be born into the world of the ?inner voice?, whatever that is. I don?t mean it was asking me to kill myself? I just knew that if I accepted I would die naturally right there and then.

It was the most REAL thing I have ever experienced, and the fear that welled up in me was too great. I wanted to accept so badly, but my life right now feels perfect and I found it so hard to imagine my loved ones coming home to find me dead and all the grief they would have to go through.

I couldn't say yes to the invitation, but I did say I would like to look in the outer world to see if many others are having this kind of experience, and to share my own if not (I also want to ground myself to make sure I'm not crazy), and my inner voice seemed happy with that? so here I am.

This is my experience. Are there others out there? If death really is a transition, then raising awareness of it would make the process (both for the dying and the left behind) so much easier.

I can't describe how torn I felt between really, really wanting to 'step into the light' and see what might be waiting there, and the pain of leaving everyone I loved behind. Not even just my own pain, but imagining their pain at finding me gone... at a time when everyone is so happy. Is it selfish to want to go? Should I talk to my family about it (or will it throw them into confusion?) Am I crazy?

I will ask my sister. She is in a time zone 9 hours away so it might not be immediate, but I will get back to you.

Thank you discrete.

mawbroon Your warning is very duly noted, and I agree with you that this mental place can easily get out of control. I do now think that I probably was at great risk to myself when I first posted due to the way my thoughts were going. I reached a place of extreme suggestibility and open-ness to the 'inner' messages and had started assigning them too much importance. I do believe it necessary now to have a strong anchor (such as a psychiatrist) in the outer world in order to explore this mental state. Do you mind if I ask how you are doing now? And whether you'd be willing to share any more details about your own experience?

ophelia275 I have had that book mentioned to me many times over the years, and for the life of me cannot remember if I actually ever read it. I will look it up and consider it properly, thanks. :)

To everyone else who has posted (Pomegranate, JustFabulous, JimmyFlip, and others... I wish I could address you all!), if you have any inclination to share more details of your own experiences, they would be very gratefully received. I am particularly interested in the details of how such experiences can change from good to pathological, warning signs, etc. Whether you believe 'any' of the experience was good/helpful, and what you now think about the whole thing.

Basically, any wisdom/advice you have that I can take on board, I would be most grateful for. :)

Also, thank you SirBoobAlot and PacificDogwood, for being consistently calm and stabilising voices of experience throughout.

Emerging

I will try to share my experience, sorry it might be a bit disjointed.

When i was very young, i had always felt "different". I was always a loner, played out on my own a lot, used to look at things differently from everybody else. I could be on my own for hours outside, and felt the power of nature. When the wind used to blow, felt a huge connection to something that I still don't know what it is. Sometimes feel as if the wind calls me. Sometimes, i feel as if i belong in another time or place. I have born in the city where i live, but to me it doesn't feel home, feel as if i am a nomad, don't really belong anywhere.

Always had these huge connections to people, places etc., that I could just not explain, sometimes i would walk down the road, and still do. and i could accidentally "catch" somebody's eye, felt as if i had known them all my life, or could see through them. I look up at the stars and cry sometimes, i am not sure what I am looking for.

I was considered an "odd" child, and unfortunately, people used to mock me, which wasn't nice.!

After the birth of my second child. Started hearing voices, which were not pleasant, and really scared me. Was genuinely terrified, and i believe the voices were "evil", and wanted me to die. Yet, some of the voices were nice. Unfortunately, i did take an overdose, and obviously i survived. When i recovered from the overdose, i had an amazing psychiatrist, who i saw for about 2 years', and brilliant nurses.

They never put me down, just spoke to me and helped me. I was on medication for a short time, but, i wanted to get better on my own. they never labelled me severly mentally ill. Many people will have some form of mental illness in their lives.

The episode changed me totally, My outlook on life is different, My senses of awareness or what is around is different as well. I am not saying I am a psychic or anything, but sometimes I just know things or feel things that are about to happen and they do.

I have been called eccentric, psycho, nutter but doesn't matter. My family are what is important.

I am not sure if you will find this helpful or not, but it's how i felt at that time.

I will reiterate, good that you are seeking medical help, they are only there to help you.

Take care x

HI Emerging. I just wrote a really long post about my illness, but it sounds absolutely crazy and would identify me in RL, so I deleted it.

I am really well now. The psychosis went on for a few weeks, lessening as the medication kicked in and it stopped completely two days after ds1 had a small operation. As soon as I could see he was getting better, it stopped dead. But, I then got post psychotic depression which was miserable, but it seems to have lifted now and I feel happy and stable again. I had no history of mental illness before this, and it was a real shock to me and my family.

As the psychosis crept in, I got a real feeling that all of history had happened to create this moment in time. Everything that had ever happened was leading to this point, here and now, it was all coming together and something big was going to happen. Everything seemed to be relevant to this coming together. Song lyrics suddenly "made sense" and I felt they were giving me a message, everything on the news was happening as part of the big plan that was coming together. I felt as though I was logged onto an alternative internet created specially for me which contained all the information I needed to know.

I didn't know what this big thing was. I had to look for "signs" to guide me and they were all around. At one point, I thought that ds2 was the next messiah, then I was convinced that aliens were coming to get us and take us to the next habitible planet before earth exploded and me and my family were chosen to start life there (there had been something on the news about a new earth like planet being discovered).

I was also convinced that most people were not who they said they were. Aliens were cloning people to get close to me and I coulnd't trust if people were who they said they were, even dh.

It was really, really terrifying.

It seemed as though every sci fi film I had ever seen was going to come true. One day, the next door neighbours were having central heating put in, so there was a lot of drilling and noise, but I was convinced that there was an escape tunnel being built between all the houses in our row. I felt that there were chosen people who knew about this, and knew that I was the special person who would lead them.

God, this sounds crazy!

I was unable to sleep by this point. My brain wouldn't switch off. I packed a bag to run away, but dh (funnily enough) wouldn't come. It was when I ran terrified to my next door neighbour that she called dh to come home and he got the doctor.

I talked to the doctor for a while, trying to pretend that everything was normal and then he said "tell me about the aliens". I freaked and told dh that he had to leave because he was one of them and was trying to get secrets out of me. I called the police, who of course didn't come. And then they took me to the mental health assessment place.

I was adamant that I wasn't ill, nobody understood, nobody realised what great danger they were all in etc etc and I didn't want to take medication because it would alter my mind and make me "one of them" and this special thing that was happening, wouldn't happen any more and it would all be my fault.

Anyway, it ended up that I had to take the medication or they would section me, so I grudgingly took the medication. Then I crashed from the extreme high and energetic state into sleep for the first time in days. I was exhausted and slept all day for days on end. I was really ill for several weeks, I was obsessed with the meaning of people's names, I was still making wild connections between things, my senses were heightened and I was paranoid about people talking behind my back and the like. But, I had the last of the psychotic thoughts two days after ds1 had his operation.

In the run up to this, I had been under a lot of stress for a prolonged period of time. Two years before, I had broken my ankle when heavily pregnant and had to have surgery on it under local anaesthetic, then ds2 was born, ds1 was really jealous, I couldn't walk properly for months, then I had more surgery to have the metalwork taken out of my leg, then ds1 got ill and the medics were poo pooing what I was saying (I was right btw) and it just all got too much and tipped me over the edge I think.

Sorry this is long. I could write so much more about this. There was such a volume of stuff going on in my brain at the time. I really do not like to think about how this could have turned out if I had not been medicated when I was.

I don't know if you recognise any of the thoughts and feelings that I am talking about. I hope what I have written is somehow helpful to you.

x

Mawbroon

Just read your latest post. you have put it more succinctly that I could have.

In fact my experience is virtually identical to yours.

Funny old word isn't i!

Hello,

Sorry for the intrusion. We're really pleased to see that the OP is getting so much thoughtful support on here.

We just wanted to post a gentle reminder that - the internet being what it is - posters might want to be kind to themselves in terms of sharing details of traumatic or distressing episodes.

That said, we are touched by the generosity being shown here. And we want to make it completely clear that this isn't to be taken as any sort of reflection on the OP; we're very glad that you're finding the thread helpful, Emerging.

MNHQ

Was that aimed at me? OP asked if I would share more details, so I did.

The more open people are about this stuff, the better.

mawbroon Thank you for that very personal and expressive post. It does indeed help to see where some of the parallels lie between what I am experiencing and what you experienced.

I am guessing that MNHQ are just looking out for their posters and reminding everyone about the public nature of the place, which is very true, I would not want anyone to feel over-exposed here.

I have been writing some things down which I will try and post here in more detail when I have a bit more time and focus.

I have joined this thread late and just wanted to add a few thoughts. I am glad that you have confided your thoughts to the people who are close to you and your G.P. I just wanted to know I too am thinking of you and will continue to watch this thread.
Someone else mentioned the book The Power of now which I have to admit came straight to my mind when I first started to read your post. I have to admit I struggled to understand the book and am on my 3rd reading of it ! It helped me in the sense that I am very anxious and the message I got that behind most fears is the fear of death or death of a persons ego. The book eases the fear of death.
Obviously if you are not well you will need to be closely monitored and medicine if need be. When you are feeling better and if you are still interested in talking about spiritual matters I would be very interested in doing that with you and others.

Thanks kerstina, I'm definitely adding that book to my 'get' list for next payday! I do think that death, or at least death of the ego... or rather the fear of those things is a big part of what I experienced.

On reflection, I'm becoming more convinced that my Grandma (and posters here) were very right that my birth experience (which I did perceive as quite traumatic and life-threatening at one point) awakened my mind to the possibility and actually... inevitability of death. Not just some abstract, dreamy, far-away notion of it, but the very real, visceral, black hole, soul-stripping prospect of imminent death.

It is strange, as I have actually faced death in the past (had several moments through an abusive childhood where I thought it may be the end), and certainly have had deep, dark episodes of life where I have sat down to carefully consider whether I really did still want to be here at all, or whether facing the 'blackness' was a better option.

However, this time (massive haemmorhage at delivery, shock, organ failure) made all those other moments seem like I was just dreaming through them, and had never felt the pain/fear of approaching death as acutely as I felt it with the birth of my child, and as keenly as I felt it in the experience with the 'inner voice' afterward.

I wonder perhaps if the difference is simply that I am happy now, for the first time in my life I feel like I have a life that I very much don't want to lose.

Its also thrown up all sorts of very real questions about the nature of what we really are, and what death really is, and what existance (if any) persists after bodily death.

I was raised religious, and to believe in a version of an afterlife that quite honestly I thoroughly rejected from a very young age (as having no rational/logical basis that I could wrap my head around), and have wandered a sort of 'no man's land' ever since... not really knowing the answers to any major questions, but being happy with the feeling of clarity and mental honesty at admitting such to myself.

For some years I have forced myself to digest the prospect (which for a long time has seemed the most consistently logical to me) that death is the end of everything. Gone back into the nothing-ness that I was before I was born. That death for a human being is no more special or transformative than it is for any animal, plant, or bacterium on the planet, and that the beauty of life is its brevity.

I'm just not so sure any more. What I have contacted inside feels so very real, so much bigger than myself, a part of my psyche (?) that I now realise has been with me my whole life, and that I have somehow lived without really ever acknowledging its voice as real, as valid, as there. Its voice has been like a dream that has slipped out of my waking consciousness as soon as communication with it ends, every time it ends. But I now realise I have heard it many, many times.

More than that, I do not think I am the only one who has this. In searching for understanding, I see reference made to it throughout human experience, by people who have had near-death experiences, or moments of intense emotion, and suddenly become consciously aware of it. And it has very much captured my attention.

I strive to be as un-invested as possible in any one answer (so as not to corrupt the search for truth), whether it be a 'true' higher part of our real nature, or a chemical concotion of madness in the mind. Whatever it is, it is real (if I deny this, then nothing I know is real), but what is it?

Thank you for your last post I must admit I find it fascinating and I think you are right in your conclusions. You sound extremely perceptive and intelligent. I wish I knew you in real life to have some deep conversations!
I keep rereading your first post and what stands out to me is you had no desire to commit suicide but you felt like if you accepted the invitation you felt your life would end naturally. Did you feel something physical would kill you ( have you had any worrying symptoms lately?) or as we have touched on it could have been an invitation for the death of the ego. Did this invite come as part of a dream or if you were awake what were you doing at the time ?

Hi Emerging. I posted on your thread over on philosophy/religion/spirituality, but didn't think it was wise at that point to get drawn into a discussion about life after death. I wondered though, based on your last post, if it might be helpful to look at some other spiritual paths to see if they might give you some answers to the questions you seem to be asking.

An obvious one is Buddhism, which focuses very much on mindfulness and living in the moment as a way of overcoming the suffering of life. Taoism is another path that might interest you. It's all about going with the flow of the universe/life force rather than railing against it. Neither require a belief in god btw. Both put forward reincarnation as a core belief, though the focus is much more on how you live, rather than what happens when you die.There are also a plethora of new age belief systems that would fit with the idea of an inner voice being your true self, your soul, which is in turn connect to a greater conciousness or world soul. It is quite a profound thought that we are all connected in this way. The more westernised traditions tend to see reincarnation as a transition that retains the personality of the individual, whereas the older, eastern traditions tend to see this as an impersonal process.

Not sure if any of that is of interest to you, but thought it might help. Incidentally, while nothing like your experience, i did have very obsessive thoughts about death after i became a mother, mostly (i think) borne out of the impossibility of accepting that i would one day be parted from my child, as much as the brush with the reality of it after a difficult labour. I think it may be more common than we realise as people don't generally talk about stuff like that. Your thread has been really enlightening, so thank you.

kerstina I had had a physical experience a couple days prior with the 'inner voice' (we had been in deep conversation for a few days before the 'invitation'- or rather, it was teaching and I was listening).

Briefly, it indicated that it wanted to show me something (along the lines of meditation), and so I had relaxed into an armchair. It then took me on a sort of 'tour' through my own body, demonstrating sensations and function in each area. This is so very hard to describe, but all I can say is that I was extremely aware of my own body sensations in a way I have never been before... as if I could actually feel the crackle of electrical impulses travelling along nerves, the gentle throbbing expansion of blood pulsing through vessels, my heart not some vague, faint heartbeat... but a powerful center of activity, hot with life and its pounding like a hammer sounding throughout my flesh.

It was as if I observed my body as a vibrant city, full of little beings (cells) busily going about their many activities, and all of it feeding back messages to my brain/mind.

It then warned me that what it wanted to show me could feel quite frightening, and to not be afraid (this is all in a very gentle, telepathic sort of communication... just like when your conscience asks 'do you really want to do that?')

What I describe here is not entirely accurate (as it is hard to put into words) but is intended to give a sort of picture of what happened. It was as if I began to separate from myself somehow. I felt my skin suddenly grow very, very cold, and was acutely aware of my heart slowing and blood vessels tightening. The 'activity' seemed to slow, and sensation began to grow numb (like when your leg goes to sleep, but this was my whole body).

I became very aware of my body as a kind of mass of wet, biologically-active flesh/meat, but that it was not me, and that rather I was kind of inhabiting it, and now it felt like I was withdrawing from it.

More than that, it felt very much like the body was dying as I was withdrawing from it.

In fact, the realisation came to me sharply that this was exactly what was happening, and the shock sort of 'jolted' me back into myself.

Lots of conversation followed with the 'inner voice' about what it had demonstrated, and that yes indeed, detachment from the physical body meant the death of the physical body, but that the physical body was not me.

It was a couple of days later, that the 'invitation' came to... essentially go all the way. So when I say I knew I would die naturally, I meant I was convinced that I could just follow the 'inner voice' all the way out of myself, and that my body would be found with its heart stopped.

I don't have much more time to post but wanted to also quickly acknowledge RedMolly's informative post. I've spent considerable time researching many religions, including Buddhism (the book of Living and Dying sits on my shelf as I type), and there are indeed many things within it that seem to parallel some of what I have experienced.

However, throughout my research, I have come to realise that there are strands of truth in everything, and that perhaps the best way to approach truth is to consider everything... every voice, every message, every opinion, and weigh them all up against each other so that something new synthesises out of the mixture.

For this reason, it is very unlikely that I will ever pursue any one religion ever again, but that does not mean there are not immense pearls of wisdom available, and so I thank you for drawing my attention to them again... I may well have something to learn from reviewing Buddhism and Taoism in particular.

Well I think you were definitely meditating. It just shows the power the human mind has. All of what you describe being aware of your own body etc is described in the power of now. I have not been able to do it probably because I have too much mental chatter. Although I believe you in that you probably could have slowed your life force down to the point of death obviously in your situation that would be a very bad thing.It has got me thinking that if someone had a terminal disease it could ease their suffering. I think you have learned that death is not to be feared and that will help you cope with life.
As I mentioned before I think that fear of death is behind most fears. You have been to the brink with the traumatic birth and I think it seems natural that it would change your perspective on life. Use the power for positive outcomes healing,dreams for instance?
How are you feeling in yourself though ?

I don't disagree with you at all - it is very much what i do. I could never be restricted by being defined as one thing or another any more. I was thinking about those particular paths in light of what you were saying about the death of the ego. I think the Eckhart Tolle book that was recommended draws on this philosophy quite a lot. Your descriptions of your experiences are very powerful btw as are those of other posters here, and i'm amazed at the insight you seem to have into them.

I keep coming back to this thread and re-reading it. You are certainly in my thoughts
Your experience would have made more sense to me if you had this experience while you were giving birth and nearly died. But you say it did not happen then it was afterwards.
I have just remembered an experience I had years ago.I had quite a lot of alcohol and I remember becoming aware in the early hours of a freezing cold force rushing through my body. I struggled to rouse myself and managed to wake but it felt like I was paraylsed. It was quite a powerful experience and I remember thinking at the time if I could not wake myself up I probably would have died. (of alcohol poisoning ?)

Emerge..

you're highly intelligent and have a religious upbringing - it can be an extremely toxic combination; the bestowed imagination to imagine the infinite in afterlife, the appreciation that you have nobody's true word for it, the mistaken idea that you must cross a line to find out because of that. Would you be the first to cross that line? who told you and how were they qualified to tell you?

You also need understand mathematically what a viciously skewed option this so called "invite" is - if we are agreed in eternity being infinite, in a lifetime being a grain of sand on a beech in comparison, then surely we are also agreed also that such "invitations" do not close if we are not hasty. In fact, we're all invited, now or later.

I must now break with the empathy and get a bit more logical - the "invite" is an entirely false, and a selfish one, a destructive voice that may need medication to silence it's carrion calls for your death- how can it not be destructive when we have an eternity to be dead , 70 tiny years to be alive and yet now, RIGHT NOW, it is pushing you to this act of complete devastation? Devastating at least for you, it ends there for you, devastating at most for your loved ones. A never ending sorrow.

The suggestion is the problem, it's an unhealthy unreality within reality veiled as a reality because such is the deception of the illness - note this is a condition that worsens over time - it's something you need short term treatment for because if you don't get treated, this counterfeit unreality will eventually replace reality, and when it does you won't be posting here and your family will be devastated. I urge you - you have partial control now, so be responsible, take it. Weigh up in your mind, what is more real, eternity? or 70 years and then eternity? As a fellow person brought up with too much religion, Isn't our time here to eternity not too unlike a drop of water is to an ocean?
Why, if you don't need urgent help must that drop of water take urgent, immediate, hellbent precedence over that Ocean?

Dear Emerging,

I wonder if what you might be experiencing is a form of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)? You say that the birth of your baby traumatic (haemorrhage, shock, organ failure), and you felt as if you were approaching death then. Is it possible that you might actually have had a near-death experience then; and what you are experiencing now is a type of post-traumatic stress characterised by re-experiences of a recent near death experience? PTSD is usually associated with high levels of anxiety, but can also be linked with an emotional numbing. Many people who have experienced near death experiences do report being in this transitional state between live and death, and feel they have some form of choice over whether they go or stay. If this might be a possible interpretation of what you are currently experiencing, it would probably be a good idea to discuss the birth with a highly skilled counsellor.

Thinking of you.

OP have you read this book?

Beyond The Glass

Her experiences (fiction but closely based on writer's life) sound similar to yours, she had very religious upbringing. NOT saying at all that you are having a breakdown like hers but just that your first and subsequent posts reminded me of this book. It's an excellent book anyway

Just wondered how the OP is getting on now? I hope things are going ok for you.

Hope you are ok Emerging - been a while since you posted.