What could be different in mental health care, what helps, and what have you found to be useful reading?

[OwFriggingOw]

First off - this is a thread inspired by another thread - not about another thread.

I am a lecturer who teaches mainly MH nursing students, but also Adult, Child and Learning Disability field nurses about MH, and also occasionally medical students. I have no agenda for this thread bar a genuine desire to listen, share ideas, and have an open discussion about what is helpful / less so. I worked in NHS MH for 13 odd years.

In case anyone links the other threads that inspired this thread - I have been comissioned to edit a book about people's experiences (service users and carers / family / friends) within MH services and with MH issues. NONE OF THE POSTS HERE WILL BE USED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM FOR THIS BOOK. You have my ABSOLUTE word on that. Similarly, NONE of the posts here will be used in any of my teaching.

My aim in starting this stems from several PM's and several on-thread comments about how this would be useful/ I hope it can be a helpful, supportive and productive meeting place for thoughts and ideas about what people have found helpful with regards MH care / services / support (statutory and non statutory) and what has been less helpful. Most importantly with regards the less helpful - what can be done differently?

And - beacuse I like books - maybe we can share reading ideas :)

Would it be helpful if I shared parts of my long thread from earlier regarding what I see as needed, without any other details from the thread?

As confused as other posters mathanxiety by your comments about this thread re details of any one poster , usefulness and all the other points that have been debated repeatedly on other threads

Really disturbing mathanxiety that you appear to be saying a large proportion of complaints about mh system organisations are made due to the person not accepting they are in need of support from said organisation / s ...

Words fail me about these attacking posts - they do not appear to me to be motivated mainly by concern for vulnerable posters , but I stand to be repeatedly corrected I am sure ... You are missing so many
points that words fail me.

Hi Shakey1500 , your posts are truly inspiring & I find use parts of your
£ 78421573o method myself < swots up >

Sorry Alameda , I realised what a clunlking thing I'd said but coudn't log back on ... hope you're feeling a bit better & will be fine in time for going away in a few days

it is also about respecting the stories and experiences of people on here who have been brave enough to post painful stuff. how awful to be told that their postings are "not helpful" or other assorted bollocks, purely because some people have an agenda that they cannot let go of. :(

Yes, that is a most important point, aesop.

Sorry , that should read " of complaints about the mh "system"

Agree here too aesop

i guess these little derailment attempts will continue... :( so i also reckon it is best to move on from the obvious sabotage and continue to share stuff then :)

What is the thread for then? Is it to be 'generic, general, and focused on support routes, links and signposting' or the 'stories and experiences of people on here who have been brave enough to post painful stuff'

the thread is to discuss what improvements could be made within the mental health services .... as per the title. that involves people on here posting their experiences good AND bad without being harassed or picked upon. for people who do work in MH this could be a very valuable lesson in understanding how depowering the mh services can be and what improvements can be made. alternatively the good experiences and tips here could be something that makes a real difference to a person in distress. it is many faceted- surely that in itself is valuable. there are resources here too, some very excellent ones.

and anyway how many threads on MN could be decreed "not valuable". that is all in the perception of the reader. if it is not valuable to you (generic you ) then why oh why are people commenting and moaning. i don't go on threads that i am not interested in/ don't agree with and post " this is a load of shit" and target other members. it is wrong. and very very disrespectful given some of the postings on here that took a lot of guts.

Well said, Nilgiri and Ow
I think you're right about continuing as you say , aesop

You speak for me there once again, aesop

What Aesop said at 23.24

cool. now where were we and who has the gin :P

Sorry, I know I shouldn't engage.

But I've had it up to here with posters who seem to assume everyone else shares their verbal incontinence, and that if it's not being said then it's not being thought - regardless of context.

Wish I hadn't passed by this thread on way to bed. Was almost asleep and now woken up with anger. Oh well.

I'm off the gin and on Tramadol currently so for me :)

ahh nilgiri, i think the anger is the response that some want so best we don't give it (fails to take own advice spectacularly). we can get the thread back to where it was and just report the obv sabotages maybe? if it gets derailed then i will just start another because these issues will not go away. have also saved whole thread and am sending to MIND as a example of the attitudes and bullying some people receive. not that it is news to them of course :(

Sorry to hear that nilgiri - I agree with the fact that the question of 'insight' and, to paraphrase, what to do when people are unable or unwilling to seek help for whatever reason is a really important one - as we discussed earlier on thread, I have no answers for that very very tough question. I think - I think! - it's more useful for me to look at or comment on what things I can link to, or signpost, or explain how referral procedures work here as I have been doing all thread. Much as I wish I had all the answers I don't, as I've said a few times :) But I do read a lot and am always happy to have more books to hammer my credit card on!

I think I've still got it haven't I? and I'm not giving it up for anyone :)

It is a useful thread. I'm happy to have my appalling experience picked apart/challenged. I'm long past caring what people think of my experience.

i think a lot more people would be open to seeking help if there was a push towards more independant orgs that promoted psychotherapy that was easily accessible. which comes back to a previous point about funding and early intervention.

Really please you've also found it useful shakey and pleased you're in a better place :)

Liking your style, Shakey ..as aesop says , these issues will not go away .

Would be ideal to have truly independent orgs fulfilling that function , aesop

Would it be ideal? I should have thought it's be ideal to have the health service providing that function, on a regular and ubiquitous basis. Since dentists became "independent", the nation's teeth have gone downhill.

Time was everybody went to the dentist every six months: private or NHS, it was just what you did (extreme phobias & suchlike aside). Now you do that if you can go private, otherwise you have to make a full-time job out of finding an NHS dentist, who will then give you only 'necessary' treatment so you will still be identifiable by your low-budget gnashers. Which reminds me rather freakishly of current complaints about NHS mental treatment.

[lightbulb] Mental --- Dental. Did someone in Westminster misread a directive??!!

... I kind of missed a bit out of my argument, though you probably got it

"Ideal" might be regular checkups as standard, at competent mental health clinics on every high street. Like wot yer dentists used to be.

good point! but wayyyy too late to be eloquent :p i think what i was trying to say (badly) is that mind are often trusted as "empowering and user led etc" and the nhs services are often feared due to stigma, media etc. the nhs services would go on medical records which may have implications for some, MIND would not keep those kind of records. it really is not coming out right tonight so i think i should go bed. i shall attempt a better explanation at some point ;)

And another thing that is so bleeding obvious I am surprised it has not been said:

If OwFrigginOw occupies the sort of position she says she does, she already knows very well what sort of changes would be nice to see in the MH system. She would have access to papers and studies and all sorts of research including research where MH patients themselves were interviewed -- in fact, she might be able to do such research herself, with proper peer supervision and peer review if she wrote about it.

'mathanxiety - Lots of people have posted. Lots of people have shared resources, links, suggestions etc. Lots of people have talked about this being a helpful thread - me included, especially around peer support groups and suggested reading. Those who began to find it less helpful left the thread. Those who stayed turned the thread back into something positive and helpful, mainly around peer support. ... I'm really pleased people have found new perspectives, support resources and reading.'

All of that information can be googled, and there are well known organisations whose names and websites have come up time and time again on MN in Mental Health and on other topics, where anyone interested can find out what is available in their local area and take up what is available if they want. People who want help find help.