What could be different in mental health care, what helps, and what have you found to be useful reading?

[OwFriggingOw]

First off - this is a thread inspired by another thread - not about another thread.

I am a lecturer who teaches mainly MH nursing students, but also Adult, Child and Learning Disability field nurses about MH, and also occasionally medical students. I have no agenda for this thread bar a genuine desire to listen, share ideas, and have an open discussion about what is helpful / less so. I worked in NHS MH for 13 odd years.

In case anyone links the other threads that inspired this thread - I have been comissioned to edit a book about people's experiences (service users and carers / family / friends) within MH services and with MH issues. NONE OF THE POSTS HERE WILL BE USED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM FOR THIS BOOK. You have my ABSOLUTE word on that. Similarly, NONE of the posts here will be used in any of my teaching.

My aim in starting this stems from several PM's and several on-thread comments about how this would be useful/ I hope it can be a helpful, supportive and productive meeting place for thoughts and ideas about what people have found helpful with regards MH care / services / support (statutory and non statutory) and what has been less helpful. Most importantly with regards the less helpful - what can be done differently?

And - beacuse I like books - maybe we can share reading ideas :)

Would it be helpful if I shared parts of my long thread from earlier regarding what I see as needed, without any other details from the thread?

Late into the thread and I'll admit I haven't read it all yet

When I look back to my "annus horriblus" the word "CONSISTENCY" would be the key word in what needs to be improved.

After the appalling (non) treatment in the psychiatric hospital, the shambles that was the outpatient treatment was mind bogglingly incompetent. I attended 5 sessions. At each session there was a different consultant. And for the first 4, they ALL, without fail had obviously not bothered to read any of my notes and began by flicking through them with a "So...ummm..Ms Shakey.....tell me a bit about yourself...from the beginning"

When it came to the 5th appointment, the (again different) consultant didn't even HAVE my notes. Just a blank piece of paper and a bloody pen. I'm afraid I (very controlled, very measured) let rip and completely slated the MH service. At one point the consultant said "I was nearly not here today, I have a very ill son at home " to which I replied "I'm very sorry to hear that and I hope he recovers quickly but how thoroughly unprofessional of you to mention it" And with that, I picked up my bag, left the building, never to return or acknowledge any communication from the MH services.

I thought I'd better devise a way of getting better myself, and I did. it was bloody hard and I still have days where it starts a-creeping up on me but, touch wood, it works (available for £785387383 )

did you not burn as well ala? i took chlorpromazine once in my yoof by accident lol... i won't go into it but i did not like it much....

hi shakey. you say you devised a way to get better yourself, is there any chance that you could share some of it? (don't have £785387383, would a gin do for starters? )

I quite liked it sometimes until I was about five stone heavier and learned of its magical weight gaining properties no, never burned

With pleasure.

My breakdown completely floored me. It was the result of both a single incident (catalyst if you like) and a build up of the legacy of a shiteous childhood. Whilst my stay in hospital was a deeply unpleasant one, I knew that I needed to be somewhere safe. I did a lot of thinking.

The experience at the outpatients made me apoplectic with rage but it forced me to realise that no-one was going to help me get better but me. To me that was a challenge and I'm VERY competitive so used that trait to come up with something that worked. I couldn't let it beat me.

I accepted that depression was part of me (that was hard but a Damascus moment). It didn't come and go, couldn't be forced out of me, wouldn't miraculously disappear, it lived in me, always had and always would. I didn't want to take medication any more (I had come off it in hospital).

So what I do is (and it's not revolutionary, don't get any hopes up!) is that I attribute and negative/down feelings to anything BUT depression. Because I think for some people, possibly especially those that suffer, it's very easy to always put it down to depression. It's easy to forget that everyone can just have off days you know? (I so don't meant that to come across as patronising, I apologise if it appears that way)

So if I wake up feeling those feelings of numbness, a heavy mind, confused etc, then I will say that it's because I didn't sleep well/I'm worried about that bill/I'm anxious because DS is going through xyz this week etc but it needs to be specific not general, as specific carries more weight, adds focus.

It's not always possible of course, and there are times when the feelings swamp me. So that's when I acknowledge it as part of me and give it some legs. But by acknowledging it every now and again, it's like me keeping it in check. It HAS to exist because it's a competiton and a competition has to have opponents. During that time, I will let myself wallow a bit, but not for long. It's part of me but now way does it define me. I hope some of that makes sense??

And I'll have ice and a slice in my gin please

ty shakey.

i totally get what you are saying and how you are in control of "it" this way and "it" not being in control of you. ty for explaining that shakey.

OwFrigginOw,
I would like to repost this post from Maryz
'It is interesting that this has become yet another thread for daisee to rehash, yet again without challenge, her opinion on not only her treatment but the entire mental health system.

I don't understand how anyone can think this is of any help either to her or to anyone else.

I am sorry about your thread Ow. I think you are being unbelievably patient sad. But ultimately I think the thread has become useless, because anyone looking for links will be entirely distracted by personal rants stories.'

and I would like to second every last word of it.

You can't claim you weren't warned Ow.

I would like to also state what surely must be the bleeding obvious:
No matter how you improve services, there will be people who genuinely believe that they are not in need of them that is another very good point made by Maryz upthread because sadly, the nature of many mental illnesses is such that there is a complete lack of perspective on how ill they are on the part of the mentally ill person him or herself.

You can provide the water, but in order to go to it the horse must believe he needs to drink.

While you can improve restraint techniques, fiddle with this or that protocol, gussy up your ward procedures and your outreach to families and the sort of snacks served to inpatients and whether they have interesting crafts or access to their own music, you will still be left with people who think the whole system is a case of them being ganged up on and mistreated from start to finish.

ffs here we go.

1/ there are many people who have posted on here saying similar things to daisee. why don't you challenge them as well and bully them?
2/ this thread has been useful for many but some of you really cannot deal with that or leave it be it seems
3/ your continued bullying of a vunerable person is pretty sad. you don't have to agree with anything she says. you could, you know, be decent and kind and appreciate that she is hurting and agree to disagree.
4/ many on here have agreed that they too have seen abuses within the MH system. would you like to attack us all in the same way too? why pick on ONE persion who is obviously very fragile at the moment.
5/ you want daisee to leave the thread and stop posting but continue to post about her and goad her into doing the very thing that you then moan about (ie rehash because she has to defend herself)

fucking unreal. i hope the mods intervene.

I think that this thread has become counterproductive.
Also, IMO it would be more in keeping with the spirit of the disclaimer at the top of the thread if people didn't claim to have specific MH skills, qualifications or professional experience, given that there is no practical way to verify this.

there is actually, if MNHQ requested it. several of us have offered that transparency. but it isn't what the thread is actually about. can you say why it has become counterproductive? there is a lot of good discussion on here even between people who do not agree.

Some people with their own agenda are saying the thread is useless.

Yet many, especially those with no agenda, are finding it extremely useful and interesting. It would surely be censorship to pander to a minority with an agenda.

Eh??? Daisy hasn't posted since quarter to four this afternoon. I know you're in a different time zone, Math, but isn't seven hours rather a long gap to leave before replaying the "Daisy spamming thread" CD?

The only people who've posted about Daisy's personal problems since early afternoon are you and Fireice. Perhaps you should have a go at each other, as it annoys you so much

if the thread is useless to them then why are they reading it? do they go onto all of the other threads that they think are useless and hassle the posters?
i don't understand the mentality here at all. am glad though that you are finding it interesting sumsum.

MNHQ dont have the time to go checking peoples CVs.
I wasnt posting about Daisy - why do you think I was?

indeed garlic

The answer to your question is yes, aesop. And I'm not the only one.

because fireice we have a regular influx of bullies who do. if you weren't then fair enough. what is your problem with the thread then ?

Actually, not "all of the other threads". Just some.

thanks sum. is ow's thread and there has been some great stuff on here even when posted in disagreement imo including some excellent links etc

mathanxiety

Here's some news for you.

Your 6th paragraph ("I would like to also state what surely must be the bleeding obvious") is the bleeding obvious.

Which is why most of us don't feel the need to fucking state it every thirty fucking seconds. Or yell it in people's faces.

Are you even aware it's possible to think something, and then think "Given that thought, what's the best thing to say," or do you always shit the unfiltered contents of your brain all over threads?

As for your final paragraph attempting to dismiss this thread as "gussying up.. the sort of snacks served to inpatients"... Do you have any concept at all that it might matter whether psychiatric intervention is actually effective? Perhaps that's not important to you.

Amazingly useful links are what MN is spectacularly good at.

That discussion's been had with MN fireice hence Helen's post that they are happy to let the thread stand. the suggestions, links, discussion about service set up etc has all been generic, general, and focused on support routes, links and signposting.

mathanxiety - Lots of people have posted. Lots of people have shared resources, links, suggestions etc. Lots of people have talked about this being a helpful thread - me included, especially around peer support groups and suggested reading. Those who began to find it less helpful left the thread. Those who stayed turned the thread back into something positive and helpful, mainly around peer support. MN aware of the thread and, I gather from their post, messaged Daisee separately when the thread was at risk of becoming something long, drawn out and unhelpful. I'm really pleased people have found new perspectives, support resources and reading.