What could be different in mental health care, what helps, and what have you found to be useful reading?

[OwFriggingOw]

First off - this is a thread inspired by another thread - not about another thread.

I am a lecturer who teaches mainly MH nursing students, but also Adult, Child and Learning Disability field nurses about MH, and also occasionally medical students. I have no agenda for this thread bar a genuine desire to listen, share ideas, and have an open discussion about what is helpful / less so. I worked in NHS MH for 13 odd years.

In case anyone links the other threads that inspired this thread - I have been comissioned to edit a book about people's experiences (service users and carers / family / friends) within MH services and with MH issues. NONE OF THE POSTS HERE WILL BE USED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM FOR THIS BOOK. You have my ABSOLUTE word on that. Similarly, NONE of the posts here will be used in any of my teaching.

My aim in starting this stems from several PM's and several on-thread comments about how this would be useful/ I hope it can be a helpful, supportive and productive meeting place for thoughts and ideas about what people have found helpful with regards MH care / services / support (statutory and non statutory) and what has been less helpful. Most importantly with regards the less helpful - what can be done differently?

And - beacuse I like books - maybe we can share reading ideas :)

Would it be helpful if I shared parts of my long thread from earlier regarding what I see as needed, without any other details from the thread?

Futuredream, you obviously did not understand what Maryz was getting at either when she spoke of the difficulty for family members trying to get a relative to take up the MH help that is available because they genuinely do not think they need the help -- or maybe you chose to ignore it. I can appreciate it is perhaps an inconvenient fact. It is the elephant in the room.

I would like to second Fireice's points that people should not be claiming any MH expertise on this thread. I do not think this thread has ever served a useful purpose. Ow could have gleaned the experiences of patients and others from other sources. At best what has been provided here has duplicated information that is already freely available from a host of other sources. At worst it has provided an audience for inflammatory comments with hardly any challenge. Even now, challenges to the thread by me and others are greeted with accusations of 'bullying'. There is clearly an agenda here on the part of some posters.

Aesop -- You are entitled to your opinion of my contribution on this thread, but I will not be intimidated by comments such as 'ffs here we go' . Your continued accusations that I am bullying someone are obnoxious and imo constitute attempts to bully in and of themselves.

And I read now that you are going to report me and whoever else has disagreed with various aspects of this thread as examples of bullying to the prefects MIND...

'ahh nilgiri, i think the anger is the response that some want so best we don't give it'

Bejaysus -- mindreading now is it?

There is an agenda, Math, it's stated in the OP.

Instead of going on about why this thread isn't necessary, Math (as if threads need to be necessary!), why don't you say what improvements you think could be made or why you don't think any are needed?

Well I have found this thread to be valuable and it inspired me to contact a counsellor.

Yes the information on this thread can be found elsewhere , I have read of the therapies suggested to me .

But for whatever reason seeing the information here has caused me to act and therefore this thread has been invaluable to me.

'Instead of going on about why this thread isn't necessary, Math (as if threads need to be necessary!), why don't you say what improvements you think could be made or why you don't think any are needed?'

Why should I? I have absolutely no desire to share even in general terms on this thread the sort of improvements that are needed because that would involve revisiting events involving beloved family members and I refuse to feed the emotional vampire who insisted this was a good idea or those who are along for the ride with her.

While you are all busy building your castles in the air and planning how much Farrow and Ball paint you would use on the walls of psych wards up and down the country if you won the lottery, spare a thought for the families who, because of love and because they wouldn't give up, made that call and had a relative sectioned, and who try to keep those relatives well and in touch with MH support services and going to psychiatrist visits for years and years and years, through thick and thin, and in the teeth of unbelievable and heartbreaking resistance, out of sheer, stubborn love.

In a perfect world everything including the psychiatric hospitals and the outpatient support systems would be fabulous and every little detail would be as picture perfect as you could possibly hope and wish it to be. In a perfect world nobody would have to make that call and have a family member sectioned.

math - 100% agree with that last point, and hope that some of the family members who have posted found useful links in here.

And sorry you've not found anything useful about this thread. But I AM glad that others have. Really good luck captanhastings

Well, I have found this thread helpful.

Mental illness makes up 50% of all illness yet recieves 13% of NHS funding.

I have had a chronic mental illness since I was fifteen, so that's 20 years of contact with mental health services. In my opinion they are failing patients mainly due to lack of resources.

I have been traumatised by my time in one hospital. I have had a terrible time with one psychiatrist, but had no abilty to change as mental ilness isn't included in the choice agenda. You get the psychiatrist you are allocated.

If you were to google Fair Treatment Now you would find a report from rethink that states GP's do not have confidence patients will get the help they need; that families are not listened to when they ask for help for a relative;that the mentally ill, on avereage, die 20 years younger than the general population; and also that people are not recieving the treatment recomended for their condition.

This thread is not about one poster. Have you seen anyone on this thread encourage any poster to believe they are not ill? I haven't.

I have found this thread interesting. As I said upthread my experience of dealing with MHI where someone has been hospitalised has been as an ExP, and outsider looking in.
One thing I would like to say, and I don't know how appropriate or "in keeping" with the thread this is, but locally we have a private hospital. I don't know how well known it is, but from what people have said it is fairly well respected (not sure if that is the right word). No idea about the Doctors there. But what I do know about are the HCA. It is locally acknowledged that if you have no qualifications and you need to earn some extra money, don't want to be confined to regular shifts and want to be working as and when it suits you then this is the place. It is locally known that anyone who can can count 1-10 could get a job there. And we are talking about people who are very ill. There isn't a high standard to be employed there. I wouldn't want any member of my family to go there.

This thread started after I'd defended MH services numerous times on 2 other threads. I suppose I felt that, when someone mentioned the thread was high up on google if you googled 'section' (can't remember the exact google word but related to that), it was potentially a frightening read in places for anyone who was, or is, under MH services.

All I wanted to was listen, signpost, share links, discuss service set up.

I am far from perfect - no one is - and maybe it would have been better to start this thread without talking about my background. I wanted to start the thread by being honest to demonstrate that actually, many if not most professionals I've worked with have been really keento listen and develop and adapt things wherever possible. Maybe that was wrong. Maybe it would have been better to start this thread to JUST share links or pool resources. I don't know. I'm not arbiter of the boards, and it's not up to me to control what people can and can't post in terms of background - an I think people sharing experiences would have been inevitable perhaps however the thread was set up. If I'd tried to say 'just links and resources' then I'd have been accused of trying to silence people's experiences I suspect.

I don't know. I do know two things - that I'm certainly not an 'emotional vampire' - and that people here have repeatedly said this thread has been helpful in terms of them finding things they'd not come across before at least. That's all you can hope for for any thread I guess - that some hide it, some ignore it, some are critical, and lots find it useful. My aim was only ever for it to be positive.

Sorry just to clarify. There is nothing wrong with with having no qualifications (I don't!) nor wanting to work irregular shifts, what I meant was that this hospital is seen as the "go to" place for people who have no interest in the actual job and just money in their pocket. Not sure I am explaining it very well.

I also reported it early on and later to MNHQ - partly, for the early report, in response to your concerns math expressed on te other board. After discussing with them, and I guess they read it, they were happy to let it stand. Not sure what else I could have done - I've been careful NOT to talk 'expert' in terms of individual advice on MH (ie you should / shouldn't get support from MH / take meds / whatever) a that wasn't the aim of the thread and isn't what I use MN for, or what MN is here for. I had that discussion with them.

So - in summary - I'm sorry, math, and do hear what you're saying. But all my intentions with this thread were only for it to be positive and useful.

math If I don't find a thread helpful, I just tend to not read it or comment.

Ow I might not have agreed with you on the previous threads but I do get why you started this one. As long as it doesn't become about just one person then i think posters will find a lot of useful information.
In the interests of balance (and I hope this doesn't out me- have resisted posting this so far) my H was sectioned (before he met me) and freely admits that without it he wouldn't be here today. Oh and he is also a Mental Health nurse.

"That's all you can hope for for any thread I guess - that some hide it, some ignore it, some are critical, and lots find it useful. My aim was only ever for it to be positive."

It won't all be positive. A lot of people have recieved awful treatment, that's a fact, and it's helpful to talk about it with others who have been through the same thing.

I came on here to write a long post on what I have been through whilst my kids are still in bed. Instead, I find myself defending my right to have an opinion.

FWIW I think it's unlikely in the extreme that someone who has been sectioned is not ill, as legally you need two doctors to agree that it's necessary. However, I think it's highly likely they might have recieved poor care. I think we all know what I am referring to.

Mental health services can be improved by:

1. Raising awareness of how disabling mental illness can be so people are aware of why investment is needed.

2. Campaigning for more funding.

3. More rights for patients. We should be able to change psychiatrists and be entitled to a second opinion.

Also I agree with the point about HCA's. Some are very good, but they have not had in the three years training that nurses have.

I have witnessed patronising attitudes and bossiness that borders on bullying. For example, patients being told off like little children if they don't attend occupational therapy. The occupational therapy was crap in the hospital I was in.

I came on here to write a long post on what I have been through whilst my kids are still in bed. Instead, I find myself defending my right to have an opinion.

This is a perfect parallel of what mental health 'services' do wrong.

I was about to write more, but am disengaging for now.

"This is a perfect parallel of what mental health 'services' do wrong."

I agree.

garlic and frothy , plase excuse my slowness here, do you mean that mh services often refuse to hear legitimate concerns from users and relatives? In which case, I would agree from own experience and feel that would also cover the comments from posters who ask the services to change the way they deal with their loved ones unable to see inpatient treatment might be their only option .

The specifics of these - whether services are sometimes / often counterproductive , the rights of people with mh distress etc are still debated comparatively rarely compared to the number of people trying to access mh support

Hardly surprising that they're debated rarely, when adverse comments are belittled, silenced and dismissed.

It's hard for me to understand why "I find myself defending my right to have an opinion" needs translation.

Have you ever tried to state your needs or views to someone who insists you don't know your own needs or views, refusing to listen? Who, perhaps, requires you to stay positive instead of stating your needs and views? If you can't think how that feels, try watching a child attempting the same. No wonder there is so much anger.

I shall try to put this in a constructive light according to the agenda: the rights of people with mh distress etc are still [considered unimportant] compared to the number of people trying to access mh support.

• If people's distress were properly heard and actions taken to address it 'empowerfully', then perhaps there would be less pressure on the hospitals.

I have no idea why there should be any type of problem with this thread whatsoever. Exactly how can it NOT be a good thing to discuss what improvements can be made. If people are distressed by reading other's experiences then the thread can be hidden.

It's exactly this attitude (i.e. protesting against a thread like this) that's helping MH issues to be hidden away and be the stigma that they clearly are.

"Don't post your experience on here, you might upset someone" (

Hi garlic, future and frothy - the two books I linked (Survivors Speak Out and Psychosis: Storied of Recovery and Hope' both discuss that very issue in depth. Both really interesting reading.

Thanks shakey