what would you think if your counsellor said this....

[ThatVikRinA22]

not namechanged for this....being brave because i am about to make myself sound like a neurotic wreck of a creature

ive been undergoing some counselling. its been a bit odd really, i went because i had a terrible child hood in which i suffered rejection, then abuse and neglect, before leaving home at the ripe old age of 15 and being homeless for a while. i had cut all contact with my mother, half brother and step father 12 years ago, but recently my mother had tried to get in touch with me, and i had tried to strike up a relation ship with dead beat drug addicted half brother which turned sour quite quickly.

it had resurrected the bad memories and thats why i had sought counsel.

The counsellor has not touched upon what happened to me at all. Instead he has focused on my personality, trying to change the way i view myself etc. Thats been ok if difficult at times. ive been about 4 times now to see this counsellor.

todays session felt pointless tbh, but i am persevering. He was talking to me about relaxation and inner peace, i had actually got more help on that score from a thread i had on here, and had already decided that i probably need to learn to meditate or similar. He said i was a prime candidate for "burn out". I do have a very stressful and difficult job which im not comfortable in, and i have two children, one teen DD of 14 and one grown up DS of 20, who has autism. (this is relevant....) aswell as a home to run.

at the very end of the session, he said he had noticed i had mentioned my DS a couple of times, and both times, i had mentioned that he has autism.
He said there was no need for me to say that and he wondered why i had mentioned it.
I said i just assumed that when i said that he has autism, that other people would automatically realise that i had my work cut out....that it was hard work, more so than living with a child without a disability,

i pondered a moment and then i said that i realise that when i say that i am mistaken, because how could they know, without experiencing it for themselves.
He said "but you have talked about him going to university"
i said yes. he is accademically bright. He has aspergers.
he said so its just socially then?
i said "in a nutshell, and he operates much younger than his years. I still have to organise so much for him"
He said i need to ask myself why i felt fit to mention it....he said not to take offence, but was it "like a trophy? or was it poor me?"

with that he finished the session.

ive come away feeling deeply unhappy. I do think that when i tell people that they will just realise that i am still doing things for a 20 year old that other people are not doing. I just had to fill in his DSA forms for uni, sort out his accommodation for uni, arrange an appointment at uni for a disability advisor so he can access support etc....on top of work a 54 hour shift rota, and keep a home running.

what would you make of this? am i being over sensitive? i was taken aback a bit, but then i apologised for mentioning it and left.
the more i think about it, the more unhappy i feel about it. Does anyone wear their childrens disability like a trophy? really? i dont feel i do. i do say it when i need to justify why i am still ringing him to remind him of a dental appointment...as i had to do today, or people would just think i was a mad woman who babies her 20 yr old son for no good reason. - wouldnt they?

i have also just realised while writing this down that i have an intense need to justify myself....is this part of the counselling process? to make me think about why i said it?

it took me so long to write this post mumsnet logged me out in the process...well done if you got this far!

In that case, ask to talk to your gp in confidence. Tell him/her you don't want it written in your notes.

There is no need for written notes, just a "confidential chat".

Doesn't matter if they are/were your bosses.

GP's are like priests (well, like priests should be). If you ask them not to write something down for general viewing, they should.

That's true Maryzed mine asked my permission to document what we'd spoken about.

Vicar I really feel for you and I think people have given you some great advice.

In my experience this first bit re; logistics of finding the right person is the toughest. Although it might seem impossible at the moment, I am sure you'll find a way of finding a good counsellor if you decide that counselling will be a way of helping to "put things to bed" as you said.

As someone said above yes counsellors do sometimes say some forgivably odd things without fully engaging their brains but the consensus above re: your counsellor seems pretty clear.

Suggestions above of seeing if you can speak to GP off record seem good. Can you swallow your embarrassment or fear or whatever it is you may feel about contacting the excellent GPs you may have worked with--(sorry please choose your own adjective there!), perhaps you could write the GP a letter marking it ?private and confidential for the addressee only? very briefly explaining your situation and what you think you might need and asking what they might be able to offer you in terms of referral and confidentiality? Perhaps you could even it to GPs home address explaining you really don?t want to mess with boundaries but explaining understandably you didn?t want receptionists to read it?

Having thought about what you?ve said I wonder that the idea of the sessions being offered by occupational health being limited in number (and monthly) is not ideal for you in the first place if its issues of childhood trauma you want to address? It might be an unfortunate and horrible irony that you?re not going to be getting enough time and attention with these sessions like perhaps you didn?t in your childhood? Again I think it?s really remiss of the counsellor not to have picked up on this and to have been clear with you what could and couldn?t be addressed in these time limited sessions from the start. So the counsellor may have it in his head that there isn?t the time to open up the past but hasn?t done his job and communicated it to you,so you?re just left feeling you?re having to keep the past still buried which must feel horrible if you?ve plucked up the courage to get yourself along with the view to trying to sort it. But you know what from the sound of things it?s probably good that you haven?t felt able to talk to him about your past because it doesn?t sound like he may be skilled enough to deal with it so you may have had a clucky escape.

RE: not being able to afford to pay privately please be aware that there are some very generous counsellors out there re: sliding scales and don?t feel bad about telling them how much you can/ can?t afford. I also wonder if it might be any use ringing charities that might deal with the issues you have been through to see if they know of anyone in your area who might be able to give you lo-cost counselling?

As you say you?ve coped for many, many years without counselling and you do sound incredibly strong but just make sure you don?t minimise what you?re feeling and bury it again if you think you need some support to deal with it because bugger me it sounds like you?re incredibly supportive of others so why shouldn?t you have some?

thanks

it may be something i broach with my gp if i feel the need. at present i have to say im so busy that its not been on my mind much.

when my brother got in touch it had a bit of a domino effect in that my mother tried to contact me - and of course the few conversations i had with my brother were dominated with talk of her (he still has contact with her - in fact he lives with her now since he split with his partner) so i think it was constantly in my face.
since we ceased contact its not really been at the forefront of my mind any more.

funnily enough none of my past has done anything to hurt me in the job, i dont find it difficult to deal with issues of abuse or anything.

anyway, thanks again for helping me come to the conclusion that my current counsellor is not the one for me.

i would rather have no counselling than bad counselling that is making me question everything that i had no problem with!

You want to "talk" about what happened?

Can you write it down? What happened... how you feel... work it out yourself?

Sorry, I have no experience of counselling. But I do have experience of abuse and neglect.

Talking about it to a real person only made me feel worse and like I had to justify my "innocence" in the whole experience. No-one could really understand it.

I spent a long time writing it down, honestly. And once I'd done that I could (mostly) let it go.

I'm certainly not suggesting stopping counselling if its working for you though.

Hi,

Just had another thought there is online counselling that you can do which go offered me a while ago which may help whilst you are deciding what to do.
moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome

Several things strike me:

1. He doesn't get autism/aspergers. At all.
2. It was far too early in the relationship to be making interpretations such as he did. In order to make difficult interpretations in a safe and ultimately helpful way for the client you need to base them on evidence over a longer period, and a solid therapeutic relationship. He had neither.

He has only seen you 4 times and his comments sounds utterly cack handed and irresponsible to me, especially as he hasn't explored the reasons you came in the first place. It sounds like he doesn't know what he's doing. Avoid.

Good therapy will be an uncomfortable process, but it shouldn't be one that makes you feel like you need to justify yourself to the therapist.

(NB. Am a clinical psychologist)

thank you again all - sharon i will look at that tomorrow.

carve thats helpful to know - i am very good at relying on my own instincts and they are not often wrong - this thread in general has really just reassured me that my feelings are correct and given me the push i needed to stop this, at least for now and with this counsellor. its not working. i was better off as i was that having someone make me question even things i felt safe in, ie - my mothering.

I'm interested in you recommending that Sharon . I've been recommending it all over the teenager section of Mumsnet. I've used it, and think it's a great site.

I find it's great to remind me to do a bit of positive thinking, and it's helped my depression and anxiety.

I too find it useful for positive thinking. It isn't a cure all but relly valuable tool

He doesn't sound very good and I don't think it sounds like he's helping...whatever style it is. You need someone with compassion who can hear your story without judging and give you some tools to help you let go of it. I would ask for someone else through work, or go another route. Also, be very specific with the counsellor about why you are going.

Vicar, hmm, if you feel uncomfortable with him then that is really not good. If you don't like his approach, that is really not good. It could create a huge barrier. Could you trust to open up to him? You want to talk about your past but he's not letting you. He's not allowing you. (Is he trying to control you rather than guide you?).

The therapeutic relationship should be one of trust. Even if the therapist raises something that's uncomfortable with you, you should feel safe that is for your benefit.

Moreover however, your therapeutic relationship is one which should provide you with a safe place for you to fall and land.

What struck me most by your post is where you said that he said that you don't need to mention your DS's autism. As the client, it is surely up to you to decide what you need. No? If your DS's autism is relevant to you and is, ergo, a huge part of your life and who you are, then I don't understand how he can say it's irrelevant. The trophy/poor me thing does sound a little simplistic.

It doesn't sound as though he is meeting what you need in a therapeutic relationship.

Plus I wonder if it would be better to see a pyscotherapist rather than a counsellor? Would you feel more comfortable with a woman?

I see a Biodynamic therapist (19 years so far! but sometimes years go by and then I need a little top up for a few sessions). It is quite a gentle approach. If you are interested google Biodynamic Psycotherapy or Gerda Boysen Institute.

You may be able to get reduced price or even free therapy through one of the various psycotherapy institutes where students are heavily supervised. Would you consider this kind of thing?

I had some counselling through work when I was pregnant. She was trained in CBT and although we only did a bit of that I thought she was really good. I saw her for an hour and a half for 6 weeks.

The first session I was a snivelling wreck and we got straight into my immediate issues and childhood experience that was exacerbating the issues. By the sixth session I didn't feel I needed to be there. It was very good. She helped me see how good I was at coping with things and the techniques I used that I could use again.

I think you need to get a different therapist. You sound like you don't trust this one and that's so important if the counselling's going to be effective. This counsellor does sound like a twat tbh.

Good luck :)

thanks again,

i think, for now, i will firstly phone up and speak to occy health, cancel my next appointment, and find out what, if anything, i can access through them, though my inclination is to just stop the counsel through work all together. im jumpy about what people may find out at work and this counselling has not helped me in any way shape or form.

then i am going to take a look at the mindgym link on here - i ve had a quick look and it looks quite good, and while i shoot my mouth off on here, in RL i am actually quite private regards my family or problems i have had/am having.

then perhaps i can look again at whether counselling is right for me, or if something else could be beneficial.

ive actually always dealt with all of this in quite a pragmatic and balanced way, but obviously having a childhood like mine has left me with problems, not ones that i cannot mask sufficiently, i do that very well, but i have 'secret' feelings, that i cant admit in daily life, such as feeling worthless, often as though any thing i achieve is just good luck, and that then the good luck will somehow have to be offset by bad luck, that things i know i have worked really hard for are somehow not down to me really, feelings of then not ever being satisfied, of having high expectations, being a perfectionist, not being good enough, not tolerating weakness in myself, feelings of anxiety and worry, i witter (poor DH!) and i suppose i could do with sorting some of this out at some point, but at the moment, i keep them mostly well squished, well, except for the worry....i worry alot. about everything.

From the outside, no one would ever guess in a million years what i came from. and thats fine by me, they might think im a worrier, but thats about it, and lots of people are worriers for far less i guess.

i will have a think about what i want to achieve and maybe, if i embark on this again, i will have a clearer idea. At first, i just wanted to get rid of my story, tell it once and for all and then never have to think about it again, but that perhaps is also unrealistic....i am who i am because of it. I have what i have now because i saw how not to do it! i ran away from all of that at 15. i rebuked it. and i started a new life, and its a good life, with a decent DH, and two much loved and loving children.
and that has been my biggest success.
and that wanker counsellor just picked it apart, when it was the one thing i didnt go to counselling for.

so i guess that answers my own questions really....but thanks to everyone who took time to reply, it helped.

I agree with Isla.

A therapist should make you feel you are doing well (even if you aren't doing particularly well), i.e they should focus on the positive, I would have thought.

If you are doing well (which it sounds like you are, Vicar), a therapist who makes you feel as though you are shit aren't is worse than useless, I would think.

Sorry, I never go on this topic, am up with pregnancy insomnia and have just been browsing last 15 mins BUT WHAT A TOTAL ARSE.

The fact he asked (dismissively) if it was "just" social shows just how much understanding he has of AS (I work with teens with AS). He hasn't a sodding clue and the leap he has made is downright unprofessional.

I would report this to be honest, it is well beyond the bounds of any model to make such insinuations after 4 sessions. He sounds like an ignorant fool who is trying to be clever with a very small bit of knowledge. I wonder what his qualifications and experience are.

Vicar, your last post resonates with me, especialially paras 5 and 6.

The only person in the world who really knows what's gone on in my head, what my own dialogue is, is my therapist. There is no one else I could ever confide in.

Good luck with your journey.

Vicar..I have to come back in and say how brave your last post is. I can relate to all those feelings- that nothing I did was ever good enough, somehow I was broken and not fit for purpose, hiding it and feared being found out for being a fraud who wasn't as good as the image I worked so desperately hard to project etc etc. And I want you to know that there is healing with the right therapist- well thats worked for me anyway.
At least coming on here and talking so openly about it means that you can see that actaully yes, your counsellor was being a prat, was not acknowledging how strong you are and how far you have come ; instead he chose to pick at one area he was ignorant about. His problem. best wishes for whatever you decide next.

There is a third possibility.

My two both have autism. It is neither a trophy nor poor me. I don't do poor me. This is their life, not mine and it isn't about me. My job is to help them.

I tell people they have autism. I tell strangers they have autism! This is not to get people to feel sorry for me! Or to say my god, aren't you amazing! It is because when they look at my boys with that look on their face because my boys aren't behaving how boys their age do normally, or because they've asked a question or tried to talk to them and been ignored, I can't STAND that look and I can't stand feeling like they're thinking my boys are rude or something. So I tell them so that they don't think badly of my children.

Or when I talk proudly about my children and get asked something like do they go out with their mates much... well, do I lie? or do I say actually, they don't really have friends/never go out without an adult without adding "they have autism"

So, you see, it is neither trophy nor poor you, it is making sure people don't think badly of your child! That they understand why they are not answering them or why they are running around or why they don't go into town with their mates.

Hecate - don't you also do it though to make sure people don't think badly of your parenting? Understandably.

Vicar - Is it possible the counsellor is trying to make you address the impact your son's autism has on your life? If I was you I would go back next session and tell him you were at first angry about what he said and then tell him you gave those two propositions a lot of thought and then tell him what is the actual impact of your son's disability on your life? Is it possible it's a complex mixture of things? Including trophy (deserved) and sometimes poor you (understandable, surely?). Good luck.

again thanks for taking time to reply.

no mrs - it wasnt like that at all. The impression i got is he thought that because ds is going to uni that it couldnt possibly be so impacting on my life and he actually said "why mention it? is it like a trophy or is it poor me?" he said that as i was leaving. i promise it is neither. He seems to think that i shouldnt even be talking about my kids, i had spent an hour with him talking to me about inner peace and relaxation.

So far this man has identified that i feel worthless because my mother rejected me, then allowed the man she married to abuse me very badly, so it rubber stamped those feelings. fine. spot on. then he said i have to stop being negative and measure myself in a more positive way. ok, so how do i do that? not a clue. i just have to do it. this is what he said. then he said in the 3rd session i have to find a way of letting the past go. ok....how do i do that? his suggestion was let a chinese lantern go on new years eve.
the last session, he spent a few mins going over breathing exercises. talked about inner peace.

My life, as good as it is now, has been very very difficult, if i were to put it on here, now, the level of abuse i suffered, then in that i would be justified a poor me. I dont regard having my son as a "poor me" at all....the opposite in fact. I had him at 19. I met my DH when i was 15. He helped me when i left home.

When i first rang and spoke to this counsellor - i said i was feeling very sorry for myself, but more so sorry for the 'little' me, the child that i was, because i had not thought about the abuse for a long long time, and then, when my mother got in touch, it brought so many incidents back to me, it knocked the wind out of my sails, the level of abuse i suffered was truly awful, my SF tortured me both mentally and physically, for years, and when the authorities got involved they put me in care, but then put me back for him to carry on with impunity, because he had gotten away with it once, and he used that from then on, saying if i told anyone, nothing would happen. he used to goad me to do it, saying go one then, no one believes you....

this man broke my bones. It wasnt just low level abuse. it was full on. And no one did anything about it. I suffered it for 8 years and in those 8 years i think i hit the lowest points in my entire life, i reached points where i just wanted to die.

so i felt the need to address some of this in the here and now. But, its not happened and actually, my life now is so far removed from that life i almost see it as two separate things. My life now is good and i enjoy it. I just need to stop the navel gazing, and move on. Mostly i can do that for myself, i just thought that it would be good to get rid of this once and for all, i didnt like the way it crept up on me and walloped me after all these years, i didnt want that to happen again. but it wont, because i wont let my guard down again and i wont entertain the idea of them having contact with me.

gosh....what a ramble. thanks again anyway. im dumping my counsellor!

Vicar Sounds awful, I'm so sorry. Good luck.

Vicar

Your account of your abuse is just so terribly sad. I want to find the 'little' you and rescue her

A friend of mine had an abusive childhood and she had this (sounds strange, but was NHS and evidence based) eye therapy where she created a new ending for her story. I don't know if any MNers know what it's called. She found it really freeing.
Good luck, your counsellor sounds an absolute dick.

Chinese lantern up his bloody arse!!

Mary -I think its called EMDR- Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing

Vicar-sounds like you've created a bloody positive ending to that incredibly traumatic early story

Big hugs.