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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Beautiful3 · 27/08/2020 19:02

Kitchen closed on 543. Todays been a good day. Hope Thursday fasters did well today.

Coffeeandcookies · 27/08/2020 20:49

Well done Beautiful! Good day indeed!

Thanks BigChoc, I'm fairly sure that's what it is as I've not had any extra calories and have been exercising regularly but not counting my exercise calories. Have experienced this weight blip in previous month, so didn't take me by surprise. In fact I find it (in a weird way) actually quite a good thing as I know I'll get a bigger loss without having to try any harder after my totm, just have to keep doing what I'm doing.

Good luck to any Friday fasters tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 27/08/2020 23:33

Well done on a good FD, Beaut

OP posts:
Frenchfancy · 28/08/2020 05:51

FD yesterday. Weigh in this morning 1kg down 😀 . I know its my first full week back fasting so it will slow down but still happy.

Planning a booze free weekend so that will help.

Beautiful3 · 28/08/2020 08:53

Thanks coffee and big choc. Good luck to the friday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2020 09:22

Congratulations on your SV, FrenchFancy
That's an encouraging start - you're back in the fasting swing
A sensible and booze-free weekend will maintain this loss so you start Monday posed to lose more

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/08/2020 12:56

I'm having my usual Saturday miniFD for maintenance
Off to the gym now for 2 hours classes with Norman the Terrible, HIIT bodyweight followed by spin

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 29/08/2020 16:53

Good for you BigChoc, hope you enjoyed your work out.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/08/2020 19:36

< groans, creaks > Yes, it did me good - maybe not quite the same as enjoying it
but it's so good when it stops !

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inthethickofit19 · 30/08/2020 21:35

I've been away for a bit (not posting or reading or fasting) as life has just got in the way. I'm hovering around 9stone 8lbs. Trying to find the strength to focus on this again as it's important to me. Will read back ASAP

Hope everyone is well

Quackersandcheese3 · 30/08/2020 21:53

I just thought I’d check in . I haven’t got scales at home so this weekend was my first opportunity to weigh in . I’ve lost 8 lb in 8 weeks. I’d say my I’ve got 1stone to lose to be at a healthy weight. I’m so pleased . Learning about calorie content of foods has been so interesting.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/08/2020 00:25

Congratulations on your SV, Quackers
That's excellent progress
You are well on your way to that first goal

Welcome back, inthethick
I suggest you plan a couple of FDs this week, on busy days and see how you go
Plan the full FD menu in advance the day before

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 31/08/2020 09:14

Hi everyone. Fast day for me today. I won a competition yesterday, a meat hamper from our local butcher. Its being delivered today! Think I should buy some extra salad and vegetables to go with all the meat! We normally only have meat twice a week, so not really sure how to meal plan it all!

MadauntofA · 31/08/2020 09:19

I'm joining you Beaut, I need a FD after a heavy meal last night!
Meat hamper sounds exciting- do you know what is in it, or will it be a surprise on opening?!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/08/2020 09:45

Good luck on your FD, MadAUnt, Beaut and any other Monday fasters

That lovely meat hamper deserves some fresh salad & veg to go with it, Beaut to make your meals even tastier and healthier

I find that too, MadAunt

  • An FD feels really welcome after a heavy NFD, to give the gut & bod a break
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ilovebagpuss · 31/08/2020 11:09

Hello popping back on here as I am back trying to shift some standard weight and lockdown weight!
Have done fasting before but never really to my goal. Also at 45 I feel it’s something that will stand me in good stead as a lifestyle choice as I know it has many benefits.
So many diets are unsustainable but I feel once in the zone this one is great for flexibility.
So it’s back at my WFH table and black coffee so far, mushrooms on toast later and maybe an egg.
Good vibes to any other BH fasters out there.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/08/2020 11:27

Good luck with your 1st FD back, ilove
5:2 is very flexible, as you can move the 2 FDs to fit in with your life

I recommend you divide your goal into lots of minigoals, e.g. every 5lb, 5kg, stone and lower BMI class if applicable
with maybe a non-food reward for important milestones

That helps motivation to continue until you are where you want to be

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 31/08/2020 17:31

Kitchen closed at 547. Madaunt, My prize is now coming tomorrow. Will try to attach a pic taken off face book, of the meat hamper! How was your fast today? Welcome bagpuss!

Beautiful3 · 31/08/2020 17:32

Food idea Bigchoc, I've ordered extra salad and veg!

MadauntofA · 31/08/2020 19:00

Wow that is a proper meat hamper Beaut, you can make some lovely meals out of that!! Well done on your FD.
Finished here at 515, oats now soaking for tomorrow's breakfast.

Beautiful3 · 31/08/2020 21:30

Thanks MadAunt. Well done on your fast today. You've done really well to keep it so close to 500!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/08/2020 22:13

Wow, beaut that's a great variety and several good portions in your meat hamper

Well done on 2 good FDs, Beaut, MadAunt
How are you doing, ilove ?

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ilovebagpuss · 31/08/2020 23:01

Thanks for the welcome, I closed up about 600 allowed myself a little more as first day.
Had nice few slices of pork tenderloin with roast cauliflower and a couple of small potatoes for dinner.
I love roast cauliflower it’s addictive. Looking forward to porridge for breakfast.

MadauntofA · 01/09/2020 06:41

Well done ilove.
Roasted cauliflower is one of my favourites- I make a big batch of roasted veg on a Sunday for the week, makes increasing veg in my diet easier. I love roasted aubergine as well.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/09/2020 09:32

Well done on your 1st FD back on 5:2, ilove

To increase veg and reduce carbs on FDs, I used to have cauliflour rice, but then I found broccoli rice, which is absolutely delic.

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