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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Beautiful3 · 25/08/2020 14:58

I'm fasting today too Moonlight & Coffee. Had mixed vegetables and prawns for lunch, not a clue what's for dinner yet! Happy birthday MadAunt!

Frenchfancy · 25/08/2020 15:29

FD today. Nothing but black coffee since last night. Note to self: must drink water. I get to this time and wonder why my head is a bit fizzy and remember that not only am I fasting but I haven't drunk any water!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2020 16:00

Good luck, Beaut, FrenchFancy
Remember: drink water everyone !

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MadauntofA · 25/08/2020 17:52

Thanks Beaut! Hope all you fasters are getting through today - utterly miserable windy and rainy here which never does much for the spirits.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2020 20:19

I recommend a mug of hot beef Bovril for any fasters shivering today

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Beautiful3 · 25/08/2020 20:20

Ended up with 800 calories. Looks like a mini fast happened instead?! Been a little hard as the husbands off work all week and I'm making lots of food and snacks (for him and the children). Ended up snacking on nuts and a spoonful of nutella😪

Coffeeandcookies · 25/08/2020 21:54

Kitchen closed, 504 today. First day back at work today which actually made it easier as was busier. However I was offered some very delicious-looking cake which was tempting, but I resisted and continued to sip my black coffee.

How did you get on Madaunt?

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2020 22:22

Well done, Coffee, Beaut

You did well to resist the work cake, coffee

Useful FD mantra:
"Communal food has poo crumbs & snot smears !" 💩
(Did everyone wash their hands after the toilet or blowing their nose ?)

Don't worry, Beaut
800 is Mosely's gentler FD scheme, so you still nailed your FD

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moonlight1705 · 25/08/2020 23:17

Ended up with 708 today so not quite as low as I had hoped. I ended up having a slice of bread with lunch as I was feeling quite hungry. Still, it is a b2b and I would normally have around 640 calories.

Spent the evening researching DH's family tree and got back to 1533. Grin

Coffeeandcookies · 25/08/2020 23:22

Lol BigChoc, I will definitely say your communal food mantra to myself the next time I'm faced with cake temptation!! Grin

MadauntofA · 26/08/2020 07:05

Morning all! FD here today - Monday and Wednesday this week. Love the communal food mantra!! Well done Coffee, Beaut and Moon. Family trees fascinate me, and I would love to spend some time doing mine. How easy was it to get so far back noon?

moonlight1705 · 26/08/2020 09:12

Madaunt it was fairly easy as once we had got back to a certain point then other people have done the legwork by going to parishes etc. We just linked into their family trees on ancestry and double checked they matched.

For us the hardest part was the spelling of the surname, it changed from one L to two LL and then added an E in the middle. We had one married couple who used different versions and their 9 (!) children used either version or made up a new one entirely.

Now we have got this far then we plan to take a day trip to the Birmingham archives to see if we can go any further.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/08/2020 12:57

Well done on your FD, Moonlight fine for a b2b especially

That's fascinating you could trace your family tree so far back, definitely a productive and novel FD distraction too
You sound a talented time detective

Good luck, MadAunt

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MadauntofA · 26/08/2020 19:55

That sounds amazing Moon. Were there any surprises? I know my family name changed at some point, but would love to research back that far.
Finished FD here at 520. Anyone else fasted today?

Beautiful3 · 26/08/2020 20:53

Thanks Big and Mad. Kitchen closed at 523, todays has been much better. Hopefully will do the same tomorrow, fingers crossed. I would love to research my family tree Moon, is it expensive to do? Well done Wednesday fasters. Anyone doing it tomorrow?

BigChocFrenzy · 26/08/2020 21:04

Well done on good FDs, MadAunt, Beaut

I had my regular Wednesday evening spin and advanced lifting classes with Norman The Bodybuilder,
so tomorrow will be a rest day
If it doesn't look like rain, I might cycle into town to my fav restaurant

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moonlight1705 · 26/08/2020 22:22

Kitchen closed on 660 so feeling good although looking forward to breakfast tomorrow.

I took over my mum's ancestry membership which is about £150 a year but it has so many records though you do have to be careful to get the right one. I've spent a bit of time realising we got the wrong Ethel as there were two of them with the exact same name who lived within 5 miles of each other but were 20 years apart.

Once DH's family tree is done then I'll happily take on a project for anyone who is wants help Grin. I'm doing a masters in archives management at the moment so it feels relevant.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/08/2020 00:16

Well done on your FD, moonlight
Your masters sounds very enjoyable

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moonlight1705 · 27/08/2020 09:20

I decided to weigh after two weeks and am down 0.8kg. I have to convert to pounds so its about a 1.5lb loss over two weeks but happy with slow and steady.

Nearly back to my low weight again so will work on not mucking it up once more.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/08/2020 10:27

Congratulations on your SV, Moonlight
That's 1.764 lb, so just under 0.9 lb per week - it's a decent rate of loss that will add up over the weeks

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annabell22 · 27/08/2020 12:04

Some super fasting going on here this week!

First week back at school for me, just for training and preparation, and our full opening has just been delayed as the powers that be decided on Monday that all school staff have to be covid tested but they still haven't told us when or where! At least the FDs have gone according to plan, it's fallen off me this week. Had a bit of an upward swing last week after a couple of indulgent days, but have lost that plus another kg.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/08/2020 15:40

Congratulations on your SV and good FDs this week, Annabell
I hope your tests go smoothly and quickly

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Coffeeandcookies · 27/08/2020 18:43

FD today, just finished dinner and am sitting at 548 calories. Going to go on the exercise bike for a while as have been sitting too much today.

My scales are telling me I've gained a couple of pounds, but am due my period soon so am optimistic it is not actual weight gain. Hopefully will see a drop in weight again next week.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/08/2020 18:51

Well done on nailing your FD, Coffee

I recommend against weighing around totm
Most women retain a few lb water weight, so there is a temporary blip which is misleading and can depress some folk

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BigChocFrenzy · 27/08/2020 18:52

The FD after the end of totm should release the water, so if you weigh the next morning, scales should be down again
So, best to wait

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