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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
MadauntofA · 20/08/2020 09:23

Mine on Sunday!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/08/2020 09:29

My training restday today
The fearsome Norman is on hols this week, but Sandy his stand-in was suitably fearsome for the usual Wednesday 2 hours of spin and advanced lifting.
It's fun to have an occasional change in the routine;
Norman does endurance lifting on Wednesdays - each lift for a full song - whereas Sandy does an HIIT set per song

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/08/2020 09:48

Happy birthday for Sunday, madAunt 💐

OP posts:
Frenchfancy · 20/08/2020 15:27

FD today. Had nothing but water and black coffee so far. Have been invited out for drinks this evening. I'm not sure what food if any will be available so I'm going to eat 250 kcals before going out and I'm going to stick to tonic.

MadauntofA · 20/08/2020 18:23

Kitchen closed at 520. Have a good night out French

BigChocFrenzy · 20/08/2020 19:21

Well done on another good FD, MadAunt

Good luck, FrenchFancy
You are very disciplined if you can manage an FD on a night out

OP posts:
Frenchfancy · 20/08/2020 21:12

It didn't really go as planned. Turns out the drinks were at a cheese and wine bar. Sharing platter of French cheese and charcuterie and some rather good red.

I tried to be good, I avoided the bread and only ate small amounts of (really very good) cheese, but I did have 2 small glasses of red. I probably still finished the day ay under 900 but still.

Onwards and upwards.

moonlight1705 · 20/08/2020 21:16

Well done french on resisting bread, I think I would have said sod it and gone for it all.

I've ended my b2b on 625 calories so had a combined two days of 1326.

MadauntofA · 20/08/2020 21:33

That is very restrained of you French - I would have thought sod it!!
Well done Moon, that's great going!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/08/2020 21:48

Well done on your b2b, moonlight

frenchFancy That counts as an NFD with a big calorie deficit
(The rule on FDs and miniFDs is no alcohol, as alcohol removes the benefits of fasting as distinct from ordinary calorie reduction)

I'd always recommend against attempting an FD or miniFD on a day with a social event - makes it too difficult to make good choices,
especially when you are not sure there will be non-alcoholic drinks and low calorie food choices available

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 20/08/2020 23:19

Kitchen closed on 582 today, off to bed now so I'm not tempted to have anything else.

moonlight1705 · 21/08/2020 10:55

My sister had her baby this morning, I am so happy for them.

It is makes me a tad jealous though as she only had a 4 hour labour whilst I got stuck with 64 hours of misery plus a csection. If I ever want another one then being less fat will help a lot.

Off to make her some delicious fruity flapjacks for breastfeeding energy once she is back from the hospital. I promise I won't eat any of them myself Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 21/08/2020 12:42

Congratulations to your sister and on being an aunt, Moonlight
If you're fasting today, remember she needs all those flapjacks !

Well done on your FD, Coffee

OP posts:
Perfumista · 21/08/2020 14:10

Hello everybody. I have finally decided the join the 5:2 group and will be commencing on 31/08 (nice way to round off the school hols and give me a focus). I do a lot of exercise (run 3/4 times per week and do core exercises as well), but I am now 44 years old and find that I cannot eat what I want an stay as slim as a slim person. I am finding bits of weight are sticking to problem areas (tummy, hips). I am looking to lose about 7-10lbs, but it is more about changing my lifestyle. Anyway, I wanted to say hello and I look forward to sharing my own little victories as well as reading about others'.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/08/2020 14:37

Welcome, perfumista 🙂
and good luck

5:2 can achieve fat loss in the peri / post-meno phase when other methods no longer work, especially to trim the mid-section.
The NFDs can be used to help form healthier longterm habits

I came to 5:2 in my late 50s because many researchers into healthy aging recommend intermittent fasting - and now I've been maintaining with 5:2 for 6 years; it's my permanent WOL.

Most useful tip:
No snacking / grazing ever - eat meals, nothing between

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 23/08/2020 22:40

FDs planned for this week, Tues and Thurs as that's what fits best with my work rota and meal plans for the family. Good luck to all starting the week by fasting tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/08/2020 23:36

Good luck with your FDs this week, Coffee
Sounds like good days to fit with your life

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 24/08/2020 07:21

I'm fasting today, who's joining me?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/08/2020 09:12

I'm fasting too, Madaunt
Good luck to us both Smile

So far I've had black coffee for breakfast and I'll do a few weights shortly
Evening spin class later, which should be much more pleasant than the last couple of months as the temp has dropped sharply to a blissful 23C

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 24/08/2020 14:03

That sounds a much nicer temperature Big, enjoy your session!
I'm at work today, so been nicely distracted. Just having my miso soup and have a lovely lentil and spinach dhal for later.

MadauntofA · 24/08/2020 20:52

Kitchen closed here at 520. I found it harder today as I ate more sugary things over the weekend - not really my thing usually! It made me realise that I was in a good routine with it all, and how quickly sugar affects me!
How was the spin class Big?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/08/2020 21:29

Well done on nailing your FD, MadAunt

Most people can manage the occasional sugary treat on NFDs - 1 sensible portion and not every day - but in excess it can mess up your blood sugar and hence increase hunger for a few days
However, often an FD will sort that out, even if it's tough, so hopefully you'll be back to normal tomorrow

Yes, I enjoyed my evening spin class plus I had a good weights session in the morning

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 25/08/2020 07:44

FD today here, anyone else?

moonlight1705 · 25/08/2020 07:54

I'm doing an FD too coffee and will be making mine a b2b with tomorrow.

I had a bit of a NSV today, my DH said as he went out the bedroom 'oh we are on our low calorie day today aren't we'. It feels as if he has really bought into this finally. He is not even dieting, just being supportive.

Probably helps that I have served him the same low calorie meals although he also has breakfast but he has lost a little extra weight.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2020 11:50

Good luck, coffee, moonlight

That's good your OH is supportive, moonlight
Losing weight himself has probably impressed him too

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