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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
moonlight1705 · 08/10/2020 19:29

Another FD over and I've had 642 today. I think keeping the Wednesday non FD really healthy has helped.

I'm aiming for a completely healthy weekend with just the one glass of wine in the evenings Smile

KylieKoKo · 08/10/2020 19:41

That's my fast day over, apart from a bit of cottage cheese and a mini orange for later so I don't go to bed ravenous. "D"P's steak smells amazing Angry.

I'm drinking herbal tea trying to avoid the smell. I might run myself a bath to distract myself from it.

KylieKoKo · 08/10/2020 19:44

Get well soon @flyingbytheseatof

Darker · 08/10/2020 20:27

Well not exactly a recipe - it was a bunch of sad looking spring onions, finely chopped, some garlic, a red chilli, sweated in a bit of chilli infused olive oil and a little butter, then a finely chopped courgette and the last of the window ripening tomatoes. Simmered in a closed casserole dish. I only ate a few mouthfuls SadGrin

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 20:32

Well done on your FD, moonlight
and excellent healthy planning for the week

Stay strong through the evil torture, Kylie
You can have your steak tomorrow !
A bath sounds an excellent idea to drown him in

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 20:34

Sounds tasty darker and in a just world, the chilli should have blown his ears off !

OP posts:
Bottl · 09/10/2020 08:33

Morning everyone!
Friday faster checking in Smile
My childminding children are on a training day today so we're about to head out for a long walk and I've been promised an early finish so fingers crossed for that Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2020 10:49

Good luck, bottl and any other Friday fasters

Grr, raining hard so I'm waiting for it to stop before I risk my Rhine walk

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 09/10/2020 10:59

i'm with you bottl hope you get your early finish :)
absolutely freezing here today, the one thing about WFH during pandemic is having to put the heating on more, especially on a FD

Soup probably for lunch, not sure about rest of the day yet....

That sounds lovely darker and very warming

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 09/10/2020 11:50

Im bowing out as I've realised interval fasting works better for me as time restricted eating during the individual days rather than 5:2. I'm doing 24 hour complete (water and black coffee between 6pm day 1 and 6pm day 2) fasts twice a week along with 16:8/ 18:6 the other days instead, which for some reason I find very easy compared to 5:2. I like simplicity!

Good luck and all the best 5:2 fasters!

KylieKoKo · 09/10/2020 12:18

Good luck Friday fasters

FlyingByTheSeatof · 09/10/2020 14:03

It's sunny here and a bit warmer than it has been.
NFD yesterday.
FD today.
NFD tomorrow as meeting friends.

Good luck Friday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2020 14:42

Good luck, Flying

ooh, I had my river walk in the drizzle, as I just can't stay indoors
Better than nothing but such a grey day
Too cold & wet to eat outside, so I'll grab a healthy NFD takeaway tea later from my fav cafe

OP posts:
Bottl · 09/10/2020 15:00

@robertsmithscorpsebride - I've finished and just got home. I'm feeling cold this afternoon and really tired now.
@BigChocFrenzy - it's been raining off and on here all day. Have you made it out for a walk yet? I took the children out for a long walk this morning, stopping at a cafe to break up the 10,000 steps. I managed to resist the yummy cake they sell and just had a coffee - winning!!
I did have a tuna sandwich for lunch though which wouldn't normally feature on my FD. Ds is working this evening so I don't need to think about feeding him. I might have a cup-a-soup later and then a very early night.
I hope everyone else is getting on ok today.

Bottl · 09/10/2020 15:02

Oops, thought I'd refreshed the page already!! I see you've been out for a walk, BigChoc!
And hope you're FD is going well, Flying

FlyingByTheSeatof · 09/10/2020 15:33

Thanks, I havent eaten yet @Bottl but have some veggies roasting in the oven. Well done on your cake restraint, proud of you Halo

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy - When I was little we lived in Bonn for a couple of years and I remember my DM taking me to School along the Rhine pulling me on a sledge. It's a beautiful river so no wonder you love walking along it

robertsmithscorpsebride · 09/10/2020 19:43

Well done Friday fasters Grin well done resisting cake Shock

Fd finished here on 505cals.... looking forward to some delicious pasta (delivered from local restaurant) and a big glass of red tomorrow, going to skip breakfast in anticipation of it. I dont feel ravenous after a fd so long as I have a good few cups of tea 😃

robertsmithscorpsebride · 09/10/2020 19:45

Drizzly walks are par for the course here in Lancashire Grin glad you got out bcf what did you end up having from your favourite cafe?

FlyingByTheSeatof · 09/10/2020 21:03

Epic fail re FD will finish on approx 1200

BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2020 21:26

Well done, Robert
and you can look forward to tomorrow's lunch - maybe have the pasta with a glass of fizzy water, with wine as pud, so it doesn't go straight to an empty tum !

I had a camembert & apple Flammkuchen (tarte flambe) with side salad

How did you do, Bottl ?
You resisted cake really well and had a good walk
A tuna sandwich can be quite filling and healthy, especially on wholemeal with a bit of veg.

No FD is "failed", Flying, merely postponed
and you have managed a sub-TDEE NFD

Before retirement, I moved to a serviced flat right on the Rhine bank, precisely as a powerful motivation for a daily walk in retirement - to avoid being a lazy arse !

It definitely worked and is very relaxing

I absolutely love it, waking up every day to look out over the Rhine, with an island containing vineyards nearly opposite and a boathouse below me

OP posts:
Bottl · 09/10/2020 22:02

Your dinner sounds tasty, BigChoc.
I love being near water. I grew up on the coast and then lived a few minutes walk from the Thames for a few years.

My FD has been ok, thanks. I can manage the hunger fine but the food cravings are what catch me out. I've been trying to remember how I dealt with them before.

I hope everyone else has got on ok today

Darker · 09/10/2020 22:11

3rd FD for me. Didn’t count calories but confident it’s within limits and have also done my 10000 steps. Hoping that will help get me off to sleep.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/10/2020 00:38

Well done, Bottl, Darker
and on the steps, Darker

Bottl Cravings - as distinct from hunger - are often caused having too many sugary things, FD or NFD
Not necessarily chocs, cake or biscuits etc, but fruit juice, dried fruit,
or fruit on its own between meals - keep fruit as part of a meal, not on its own

Mosely recommends no more than 2 portions per day; on an FD I'd limit it to one

Cravings can also be caused by too much white bread, pastry, breakfast cereal etc,
because they are highly processed carbs which are quickly digested and spike insulin in excess

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 10/10/2020 01:21

Sounds idyllic @BigChocFrenzy - your camembert / apfel Flammkuchen sounds intriguing and as I love both flavours I expect it was yummy although I just can't imagine the flavour combination. Yes the idea of my FD being postponed is better, thanks. I was picking DD up and DS requested something from McDonalds so I thought sod it and succumbed to a double cheese burger just because I could. I was getting a bit stressed out with the stupid touch machine to order it by as I rarely go in there and DD had to stay in the car in case of traffic wardens.

Well done @Bottl and @Darker

robertsmithscorpsebride · 10/10/2020 08:50

Ooh yum that sounds delicious bcf I love fruit and cheese combo. Where you live sounds amazing too, it would spur you to get outside!