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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
robertsmithscorpsebride · 05/10/2020 09:47

morning all - can I re-join please?

Lockdown is having a bad effect on my mood and eating and drinking and I am heavier than ever Sad perimenopause is also having an effect on my mood and is making 2 out of every 4 months intolerable.....

But excuses aside, today I am starting back on 5:2, I know it works, I have lost 34lbs in the past on it (which is now all back on), I just need to refocus and reset my thinking as lockdown looks set to stay for the short term....

Anyone taken any supplements etc that helped with hormones?

NFD today then FD tues and fri this week Smile

robertsmithscorpsebride · 05/10/2020 09:48

that should have said 2 out of every 4 weeks.....

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2020 12:12

Welcome back, Robert
You'll soon be back in the fasting groove

This time when you get to goal, I recommend a defined maintenance plan - almost everyone needs that
e.g. mine is that I have a couple of miniFDs most weeks, daily weighing
and of course 5:2 good habits of No snacking, NHS alcohol levels etc which are my normal WOL

Good luck today, MadAunt

Good luck tomorrow, Kylie
Weight loss is a process that happens over months, so an occasional dropped FD won't slow you enough to notice

OP posts:
Bottl · 05/10/2020 13:14

Kylie - I'm going to join you Tuesday/Thursday and then another on Saturday or Sunday.

Robert - I lost a similar amount and also put it all back on and have spent the last 5 years trying to get back into the routine of fasting.

BigChoc - I agree, a maintenance plan is essential and needs to be thought about before it's actually required - the exact opposite of how I dealt with it.

BrioLover · 05/10/2020 13:28

Coming back to join you all again, if you'll have me. Did 5:2 happily for a few months and then September hit and I feel poop.
FD tomorrow and Thursday for me this week. Going to scroll through for food ideas!

Whattodowithaminute · 05/10/2020 15:12

Welcome robert you’ll soon get back in the swing of it.
FD for me today, will have an omelette in about an hour as my meal. So far bovril and coffee only. Tomorrow planned as a b2b, then Thursday for a mini. Last week was a premenstrual write off (but not as bad as it would have been before I restarted this WOL-so I’m taking that as a small win!)

Whattodowithaminute · 05/10/2020 18:08

Kitchen closed on 487, exercise class still to go...

MadauntofA · 05/10/2020 18:57

Welcome back Robert and Brio, quite a few of us on here to spur you on! Well done What, I've finished my 2nd b2b today at 800!
Good luck Tuesday fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2020 20:22

Welcome back, Brio
I posted several recipe links upthread which are also in the OP

Well done on a good FD1, what and good luck tomorrow
That's progress if 5:2 is helping reduce the totm Mad Munchies

Well done on nailing your b2b, MadAunt 800 right on the nose

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 05/10/2020 21:26

Evening all, I haven't posted in a few days but have just been catching up with all the messages. Welcome to the new recruits and well done for all the successful FDs, lots of positive progress!

FD here today, am inordinately pleased that my calorie total for today is exactly 500! Nice round number that is a great deterrent to adding even one more calorie on!

Planning for Wed to be a FD also. Am gently seesawing up and down slightly with my weight, but my BMI is gradually settling more comfortably into the 'normal' category which is great seeing as I was obese when I started 5:2. Am targeting another 7lb weight loss to get my BMI down below 24 and will aim to maintain once I achieve that.

Good luck to any Tuesday fasters tomorrow!!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2020 21:36

Well done on such an exact FD, Coffee
and on your SV / healthy BMI - great progress

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 05/10/2020 21:48

Thanks everyone Grin it feels good to be back! Well done to all the Monday fasters.

Wow coffee you are so close.... exciting.

I agree re: maintenance although I hadn't even got to goal before it all went to pot and crept back on.... I will this time though!

Successful nfd, around 250cals under, happy with that. Off for an early night in preparation for fd tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2020 22:24

You are in the groove, robert
Good luck tomorrow

OP posts:
Darker · 05/10/2020 22:53

Just read the OP and am horrified to see that the original Horizon programme was 2012. I did 5:2 for a while after that but lapsed... I had convinced myself that the lapse was just a year or two ago!!!

Anyway rejoining while I get rid of my Lockdown spare tyre. FD today - maybe a bit drastic with only black coffee and an apple but I realised the porridge I had lined up is in a packet which has been gathering dust for a good while since it was opened.

Also 15,000 steps so I’m pleased with that.

Need to be more organised but feeling good and glad to be back.

moonlight1705 · 06/10/2020 06:58

I'll be doing a FD today - work is busy again so at least I won't be able to think about food all day Smile

coffee that sounds amazing getting down to that normal BMI, great achievement.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 06/10/2020 07:42

Welcome back darker I rejoined yesterday too.... lockdown has been brutal. Can oats go off? I'd be inclined to eat them Grin

Fd today, going to stick with tea until lunch, which is an omelette and wee salad. Going to have tuna steak and veggies for dinner.

Wish me luck, not managed a successful fd for a while Blush good luck darker and moon

MadauntofA · 06/10/2020 08:51

Welcome back Darker! I also had a dabble with5:2 at the time of the original programme, but had more serious attempt a few years back, which worked well, I just didn't factor in maintenance which I intend to do this time.
Good luck all you Tuesday fasters!

Beautiful3 · 06/10/2020 09:43

Planned a fast yesterday which didn't go to plan. But todays a new day!!! Wish me luck!!!!

Bottl · 06/10/2020 09:44

FD for me too today. I've managed to avoid breakfast (usually my biggest hurdle) but one of my childminded children arrived with a Halloween caterpillar cake for us to share - must not eat the cake, must not eat the cake...
Good luck Tuesday fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 06/10/2020 10:43

Welcome back, Darker

On FDs, we recommend 1 or more small meals , which each includes protein & veg to help stay full
Fruit on its own usually increases hunger, so don't worry if today is tough - you can make the next FDs easier

That sounds a good healthy FD menu, Robert
2 meals with protein and veg; fish and eggs are especially filling protein for their calories

If you find FDs tough, you might do better on 800 FDs for a more gentle loss

  • if people have a lot to lose, I recommend 800 FDs anyway for sutainability and because they can usually lose more quickly than those nearly at healthy BMI

Another alternative is to do 3 miniFDs - same rules about no junk or alcohol as FDs, but 800-1000 calories
e.g. Mon+Wed+Fri or whatever suits
That gives about the same rate of loss for most folk as 2 x 500 FDs

Good luck today, Darker, Robert, Bottl, Beaut, Moonlight and any other Tuesday fasters

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/10/2020 10:45

When anyone nears goal, shout out and I'll post a guide for maintenance

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 06/10/2020 11:25

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy hopefully that'll be early new year or sooner xx

FlyingByTheSeatof · 06/10/2020 11:46

Today I've planned a FD. So far I've had bacon and eggs.

Later will be roast chicken or goulash.

Good luck to fasters today and well done to everyone the last few days.

Bottl · 06/10/2020 13:19

@BigChocFrenzy

When anyone nears goal, shout out and I'll post a guide for maintenance
That feels such a long way off. I'm hoping it'll be this time next year, in time for a family wedding. I've just found my weight-loss note on my phone from last year and am a stone heavier now.
KylieKoKo · 06/10/2020 15:32

I'm really feeling the cold today which I think is linked to fasting. Are any other fasters finding this? I'm trying to warm up with herbal tea.